PODCAST TRANSCRIPT | EPISODE 407: TWO BECOMING ONE
LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell
EPISODE 407: TWO BECOMING ONE
Connie Lanford from Louisiana is with us again today. This time we will talk about the oneness of marriage. How do two different and unique people become one together? Connie shares about their challenges and difficulties, but how God showed her His way.
Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to the Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies, a magazine bringing strength and encouragement to families across the world.
Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies. Well, today, I have Connie Lanford with me again. So, we’re going to do another podcast together seeing she’s right here, staying in our home. Connie and her husband, Les, are organizing the Above Rubies Family Retreat that’s coming up in the Smoky Mountains in August. You can go onto our website to check that out and get all the details.
In fact, ladies, if that is too far away for you, you are welcome to organize an Above Rubies retreat in your state. Colin and I have never actually organized one in our lives. We just come to speak. When people get a vision to put on a retreat in their area they call us. If we’re free, well, we’ll put it on our calendar.
So, we do Above Rubies ladies’ retreats where I will come and speak to the women. And then we do family retreats where both my husband and I come together. Colin speaks to the men, and I speak to the women. Both of them are such wonderful times. Oh, so great, and I do hope you can get to an Above Rubies retreat. If it’s too far away, well, maybe you can think about setting one up in your area, in your state, because we are so happy to come and talk to the families. I love to come and share with the women.
So, here we are. Last week, Connie and I talked about motherhood and some of her experiences in raising her family of eight children who are now all grown. Today we thought we would talk about marriage. We’ll see what Connie has to share after their 35 years of marriage. They just recently celebrated their 35th wedding anniversary.
I should say, before we move on, that we forgot to talk last week about how when you were raising your children, you had this vision to get them taught musical instruments, and how they all ended up playing different instruments. Joshua plays the guitar, David the bass.
Connie: Daniel the bass.
Nancy: Daniel, of course, Daniel. Daniel’s your tallest, isn’t he?
Connie: Yes, six feet, two. Eyes of blue.
Nancy: And Stephen the piano, Nicole the flute, Anna Joy the violin, Rachel the clarinet, Jonathan the trumpet, and they all play together. I remember when they would all play at the Above Rubies retreats. This was way back, many years ago.
Really, I have to say, they weren’t that good. But they would play. They were young, and it was great to see them trying. It was so wonderful how you and Les gave them that opportunity. Now, when they lead worship at a retreat, they are so good. It’s amazing how the years of practice make perfect and what it does.
Of course, you not only play at Above Rubies retreats. You go to many functions and play as a family. And play often for the elderly just to bless them. In fact, it was Colin’s birthday on the first of April, his 86th birthday. He was born April Fool’s Day! He always says to people, “Well, I’ve got an excuse. What’s your excuse?”
But anyway, it was prayer meeting night. Anna Joy had her violin with her, so she played two or three songs for Colin for his birthday. It was so beautiful. I love the violin. My, what will it be like in eternity when all these most incredible violinists and harpists are playing? I don’t know how we’ll even be able to contain the glory of the music! Because even here, there’s music that takes you into another realm. What will it be like in eternity? It will be so amazing, won’t it?
All right, tell me. What do you think is one of the most important things about marriage?
Connie: Oh, such a pleasure to be here again with Nancy. We’ve been tasting a little bit of Heaven here. It’s been amazing.
What I think is the most important thing is what God says that two shall become one flesh. It’s a profound mystery, isn’t it? Because separate lives are yielding to God and they’re discovering they have the power to relinquish all that self and become one—one in spirit, one in flesh, and one in unity and purpose, all through the bond of God’s Son, Jesus.
Nancy: I do believe that too, Connie, because it’s the very first thing that God says about marriage. “Therefore, shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh.” That’s the very first description of marriage. “One flesh.” Of course, it means what it says. We will be one flesh.
After the marriage altar, then we become one flesh, The marriage is consummated. It’s never meant to happen before a marriage. It’s something that happens after marriage. We do truly become one flesh. Well, of course, it even takes time to learn how to truly and ultimately become one flesh. That becomes something that you grow into more and more and more wonderfully, more amazingly, and more incredibly!
But of course, it also means that one spirit, and as you mentioned, one in unity, one in purpose. I remember reading a couple of quotes by an author. I was reading a few of his books. The author is John Garr. He says about marriage, that when you get married:
“Your twoness ceases to exist.”
That’s pretty amazing, because we come into marriage as two very unique and different people. Often God brings very unique people together, opposites. How on earth do we become one? Oh, goodness me! It doesn’t happen straightaway. It takes time to mold into one another’s lives. And yet, that’s what marriage is all about. I think you would be able to say that.
You know more of oneness now at 35 years than you did when you got married. I would have to say that after being married for 63 years, I can say now that we have molded together. We are completely one. It’s the most beautiful, beautiful thing in the world. But we weren’t completely one when we first married. It took time for us to blend together, and even to find out who each other was. So, it’s quite something, really. Maybe we should go back to the beginning. Tell us how it happened with you, Connie.
Connie: So, my husband and I are so opposite. One time, I noticed we were going to go on an outing. I thought I had shut the door all the way, but I hadn’t. When we came back, it turned out that it was slightly ajar. My husband, well, he really came unglued over that one! I realized what was important to him was money and time. That would waste a lot of money heating the outdoors. He said, “Are we heating the outdoors here?” To me, I thought, “Well, it does seem like a lot of fanfare over a small little thing.”
But I realized what was important to him. I had to respect that energy was being wasted. That was his hard-earned money, so I needed to respect that. We were totally opposite in so many areas, even the area of the wives submitting to your husband. I would submit but sometimes I would say, “Why are you doing this?” And I’d be right, but I would be wrong at the top of my voice because I would be arguing with him about it. So, it would not go over too well when I was getting angry over his behavior, or something he did.
Nancy: I like what you said there, Connie. You can maybe be right, but you can be wrong with your attitude and the way you speak. That’s something we have to learn, isn’t it? Sometimes, when we’re right, well, it’s not really appropriate to stand on your digs and demand that “I am right, and this is how it is!” We have to sometimes just be quiet about it and pray about it.
Often, God will show in the end that maybe you were right. Sometimes your husband’s right. But it’s sometimes just standing back and being quiet and waiting for God to work. I think that’s so true. I loved also what you said about how you had to find the things that were important to your husband and respect them. They probably were things that weren’t important to you.
Connie: No.
Nancy: Two different personalities, but because God has made you one, therefore, you have to find out what’s important to him so you can mold into that.
Connie: The Bible says to “see to it that you reverence your husband.” The Bible says to “submit to your husband, and see to it that you reverence your husband.” That’s in Ephesians 5:22, talking about wives submitting to their husbands. Even Christian wives can “win their unbelieving husband to the Lord without a word by their reverent behavior, coupled with the fear of the Lord” (1 Peter 3:1-6).
Since I have a Christian husband, I take that as any area they’re disobedient to the Word, they could be one without my many words. Instead, my husband can be one with my gentle and quiet spirit, my pure and reverent heart, not in my many words.
Nancy: So, we can be prone to many words.
Connie: We can be prone to many words as women.
Connie: So, we were going along, and God was telling me something about us playing our instruments, as Nancy just mentioned, and playing and singing together. We got many words from the Lord about it and from others. I wanted to go ahead and start doing that.
That wasn’t my husband’s agenda because he believes in hard work. We had a farm and there’s a lot of work to be done. He didn’t seem to understand why we would need to play instruments and sing. Then he also would say that would be a waste of money to hire people to help us with instruments. I couldn’t teach them.
So, it was always a struggle, but I realized in the struggle that God was teaching me to zip my lip and reverence my husband and wait on the Lord. And to also check my own values and see if this something I’m doing is unto the Lord or am I doing it as unto man, to please man? Am I honoring my husband in my attitudes? That’s been a trial, but God sends trials our way through our husbands.
One time, I was reading about Samson fighting with the lion. He killed the lion, and in the struggle, it became his food, because the next year he was walking through that same vineyard. He saw the dead lion with the honey in it. He was hungry and he took a scoop of the honey and put it in his mouth. It was what actually nourished him later.
God was saying in the struggle of marriage, that I will be your sustenance later. It will be what sustains you, so stick with your marriage. God has a purpose for this trial. Of course, the ultimate purpose is to conform us to the image of Christ. If we didn’t go through the trial, we wouldn’t be conformed to the image of Christ, because God has so fashioned our husbands and the wife’s relationship to conform us to the image of Christ so that we could, in the end, look like Him.
If we didn’t have that iron sharpening us, we would not be conformed. So, we thank God for the trials because somehow God has allowed this person to sharpen us. Sometimes this sharpening hurts but in the struggle of the marriage, God is preparing us for Heaven.
Nancy: Yes, that’s true. Because, you know, there will always be those struggles, especially, I think, in the early days of our learning how to be one. I find myself, even now, I will remember. If something will happen, I think, “Oh, it’s a decision to be made and I could easily make it myself, and just do what I want because I love to plan and organize.” Then I have to think, “But no, I’m one, so this affects my husband too.”
THINK ONENESS
I have to think oneness. I think this is a big thing, to think oneness, not think, “Well, it’s just me and I have my rights. This is everything about me.” No, I can no longer think like that because I’m one with my husband. And so, everything concerns him as much as it concerns me. I have to consider him, and consider what he would like, consider the thing. What would he like best?
It’s not “me first.” You can’t have “me first” when you're being one with your togetherness. You have to learn that little by little. I think “little by little" is even with motherhood. You come into motherhood, and you're still this very selfish individual. Those babies come along. With each succeeding baby you learn to give up a little more of yourself and realize life isn’t all about you.
Life is about serving and laying down your life for others. In doing that, you find your life.
Mark 8:35: “He that will find his life (or save his life) will lose it; but he that will lose his life for My sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.” We often think we’ve got to find who we are, and find our lives, and save our lives by looking after me, number one.
But it’s the opposite. Jesus said, in fact, most of the Heavenly principles in the Word of God are opposite to how we feel. This eternal principle says that as you lose your life for others, that’s when you find your life. And you find that, even in marriage too. You see, I can’t lose my life. I’ve got to stand up for who I am.” No, as you are prepared to lose your life by serving your husband, laying down your life for him, you find your life. You don’t actually lose at all. You find. You save. It is an amazing principle.
Connie: Yes, life comes from dying to self.
Nancy: Do you have any other stories?
Connie: Yes. Now we play and sing all over, like Nancy said. But the struggle was in waiting for my husband to feel that it was time for them to learn their instruments. Then there was another struggle in that we also have a production company. We do the play “Esther”, and we’ve done many other plays. God was showing us that we’re to continue in it. It was growing. The popularity was growing.
Nancy: And you were getting how many people coming along?
Connie: The last play we had 2800, so it kept growing and growing.
Nancy: Oh, that’s amazing! You were thinking, “Whoo, this is pretty neat!”
Connie: I thought, “We’re just going to keep going and growing!” After the play was over, my husband said, “We’re not going to be doing any more productions.” In front of the whole cast he just shut the whole thing down. I thought, “What? This has been my last season!”
We’re finally doing it. I had built up this production company and put lots of money into mikes and sound systems and hours and hours into making costumes. We had it all, and then it was just stopped. Crashed. And I knew God had called me to it.
I did express my concerns in not so nice terms but that didn’t work. I had to wait. It took four years of waiting and in the four years, God has taught me so much about myself and about how I need to reverence my husband in it, and how it had become all consuming. It was disruptive to the family, but God showed me there would be a time when it wouldn’t be disruptive to the family again in the future.
Nancy: Now this time, your children were grown. So, they were working with you too, doing acts and dance. It wasn’t as though you had little children, but your husband didn’t do that just for spite. He obviously felt that somehow, maybe he was perhaps not getting all he needed from you. Just getting a little less. Do you think that could have been one of the reasons that he made that decision?
Connie: Yes. I think that he was jealous of it because he wanted to see that I reverenced him before anything else.
Nancy: Really, as you were saying before, and as what the Bible says. The Bible says that wives are to submit to their husbands and reverence them. I think this is what a man . . . and I have had to learn this over the years. I’ve always loved my husband, but I have to confess that I haven’t always reverenced and respected him.
I loved him, but, oh, it’s another realm to show that respect and reverence. I still have to watch, you know? Because that’s what God wants us to do, because it’s a type of Christ and His church. And how do we treat Christ? We reverence Him. We are in awe of him. If we just think we can say anything and order our husbands around, that is the absolute opposite! We are giving a foreign, blasphemous picture of what marriage is meant to be and what the picture is of Christ and the church.
And also, it’s built within man to long for reverence. They long for it. Oh, wow. If they don’t get it, they don’t do well. So, even though you felt you were doing this amazing thing, oh, that must have been very hard for you. But you did let the Lord deal with you, didn’t you? And just lay quiet. Keep telling me how God helped you in it.
Connie: God was showing me the many ways I hadn’t really reverenced my husband in it. I knew that if ever I did that again, I would consider him before anything I did. That was a good lesson. So many good lessons I learned, and it gave us all time to regroup as a family, which was helpful.
Nancy: Do you think that your husband, as he saw your heart toward him, that gradually . . . it took four years, it didn’t happen the next day . . . four years to come to the place where he was willing for you to do the show again.
Connie: So, we’re going to be doing Esther again. It’s going to be June 19th. My husband has graciously agreed to it. He said he even wanted to be in the play. So, he’s really behind this vision. The rest of the family seem to be excited about it, so it isn’t as disruptive to the family. It’s something we want to do together as a family.
I always felt that ministry, as I had children still with me, that it should be something we do together, not separating or dividing the family, but building and uniting the family with a single purpose. So, I’m very excited to be presenting it again, with the family together.
Nancy: That’s amazing. If you had just taken a strong stand and blown up, well, you can’t imagine what would have happened in your marriage, and you most probably wouldn’t have been able to have done it again anyway. But in just taking that humble, quiet waiting-on-God attitude, God has brought it all around again.
Connie: I would say, oftentimes husband and wives have different giftings. God made it that way. Sometimes the wife has discernment that the husband doesn’t have, and sometimes, in my case, my husband has a wonderful gift of teaching and administration and in counseling, and in pastoral kind of gifting.
I see that his giftings and mine blend with each other, but I was seeing recently that I have some discernment that he didn’t have in some areas. So, we were seeing it differently. I saw him go toward over-encouraging somebody that I felt, “Oh, that person’s not going the right direction.”
I had to wait on the Lord, but I learned in the process that I needed to trust in God’s work in my husband, and pray, and not say again, but just be silent, and wait on the Lord in prayer. In prayer I could move the mountains.
What I saw, is that through prayer, and through encouraging my husband, because I realized he just needed me to speak lovingly to him and speak admiringly and dote over him, tell him how much I appreciated how much he did all those years, for the children and me. And how he’s covered me with his life, and how he’s supported me. I try to think of everything he’s done well, instead of thinking what he wasn’t doing right.
I don’t know if he even knew how much something he had said hurt me until about two weeks later. I said, instead of just grouching about something I said, “You probably don’t know how much what you said this one time hurt me, but I just wanted to let you know that that was hurtful. The way you did not stand up for me, I felt that you weren’t really covering me, and that you were leaving me exposed. It really hurt my heart. I would want you to know how much that did hurt me, and just to pray about it.”
I didn’t try to blast him and tell him how much he did wrong or anything. I just said, “You probably don’t even realize it.” And then I waited on God to work everything out, and God did, so amazingly turn it around. God really vindicated his Word and what He was saying and gave me my voice back. I really felt like I was Esther pleading with King Artaxerxes for the scepter. The King gave the scepter to me and God used my husband as King Artaxerxes to really help me to get what I really felt the Lord was speaking to us then.
Nancy: Yes, yes. Anyway, you were telling me how there were times when you were going through difficult times, you would think, maybe, negative thoughts about your husband. Then God showed you to change your thinking. Tell us about that and how that changed you.
Connie: I was realizing that I was thinking, “OK, well, he’s never going to change. He’s always going to belittle me, just mocking me, and speak badly about me,” and things like this. And then God was saying, “You are cursing him with your words. You’re agreeing with the devil, so I can’t move. But if you will just speak my Word, and break every curse you've spoken over him, then God can move.”
So, I asked forgiveness for the way I cursed him, the way I cursed our marriage, saying, “Oh, it’s never going to change. I’ll always be the victim here.” And God was saying, “No, just speak the Word over it.” So, I said that “My husband is a good priest, good protector, and provider. He is covering me with the water of the Word, and he is laying down his life for me. And that our marriage is blessed. Our children are blessed.” I started changing my vocabulary and asking God to forgive me whenever the thoughts came up that I was just going to have endure this until we die.
Then God started working on my husband. At the beginning of the year, I had a dream that we were getting married all over again. I was wearing my white wedding dress. He was wearing his black tuxedo, and we had our pastors say the marriage ceremony. This was my dream. I never told my husband, but then last weekend, my husband took me on a surprise anniversary, out-of-town, out-of-state, beautiful anniversary vacation.
On the way home, I didn’t even know this, but he surprised me. When we got back to my house, he had an amazing dinner with many of our closest friends, and all my family. All my children were there. My children had done this amazing job putting on this great dinner. After dinner, our pastor was there, and we said our vows. He had us say our vows again to one another.
Honestly, I feel like I’m married all over again. It feels like a new marriage, like God gave me the marriage I always dreamed of after 35 years. My husband is a new person, and I’m a new person!
CHANGE YOUR THINKNG
Nancy: But that came with your changing your thinking about him. When you saw the negative things, you would change and begin to think and say OUT LOUD those positive things that you believed in him. How long were you doing that?
Connie: Well, that’s been the last couple of years, but especially the last two months, because there was a really big trial. You know, the trials don’t go away, do they? God has designed them to fashion us into the image of Christ. There was a big trial that came up and God used it to really teach me again to confess His Word over our marriage to see God move and watch the Lord’s hand move in this situation.
Nancy: Yes, I think that is so beautiful. I think the whole theme of this podcast is learning to be one. Another quote from that writer John Garr says:
“Marriage is a divinely sanctioned state of oneness that can be parallelled only in the unity that exists in God Himself.”
Now that’s a huge statement, because in the trinity there is total and absolute oneness. There are three, but they are totally one.
This is the kind of oneness that God longs for us to have in our marriages. I believe that we can have it. It takes both of us allowing God to work in our hearts. For both of us to put aside what we want to do, and what we think, and laying down our lives for the other. And thinking oneness. Always thinking in every situation, thinking oneness. Gradually, God brings us into that, into that beautiful oneness that He has destined for marriage. So, then you have two people, and you are like one.
WHAT YOU SPEAK INTO YOUR MARRIAGE WILL BE WHAT YOU EXPERIENCE
I have found in our own marriage that a lot of this has happened, the blessings, and the bliss, and the glory of our marriage has really happened through the words I speak. What I say to my husband, and constantly speak into him, and also write, because I love to write something to my husband every day. Little tiny things but I write something that is very positive, loving, romantic.
This actually, as I have been doing this over the years, changes him into a whole different person. Because every one of us are affected by words. When you are receiving beautiful words, and positive words, and very loving words into your life every day, it’s going to change you. It’s brought such oneness in our marriage. He was always a very shy person, but it’s opened his mouth to speak wonderful things to me. So, we both speak wonderful things to one another.
Words have such power. It’s what we say that will be what we experience. So, can I encourage you, young marrieds? Sometimes you can have a few little difficulties along the way as you're seeking that oneness. But be encouraged. Remember, it won’t work by your standing on your rights. No, be prepared to lay down your life, and remember that God wants you one, and continue that throughout your marriage. As you do, it will become more lovelier and more wonderful as the days go on.
One of my favorite quotes about marriage is from John Piper. He says:
“There has never been a generation whose view of marriage is high enough.”
I think that’s true. God has a very high and glorious plan for marriage, which not everybody enters into. They are thwarted, because of selfishness, and not being prepared to lose their life, because they haven’t lived the principle that when you lose your life, you save it. This happens, even in marriage.
But there is a glory in marriage that God wants us to come into. I believe that we can come into that as we continue to lay down our own lives. And also do the positive, which is the most important. It’s not always happening that I’m the poor person laying down my life. No, that becomes less and less as you become one because you enter into this glorious oneness.
But I believe the most powerful thing, can I say it again as we close? That is the words you speak. What you speak into your husband will be what you experience. So, start speaking beautiful, lovely, wonderful, loving, amazing, incredible words into his life. Amen? May the Lord bless you and bless your marriage. Shall we pray?
“Dear Father, we pray that You will help us all to see the plan You have for marriage. This glorious plan of revealing the oneness, Lord, that is in the Godhead, and the oneness between Christ and the church, where Christ came to totally lay down His life for His Bride. Even when we were sinners, Christ died for us because He loved us. And He continues to pour out His love upon us. This is just a picture of Christ and the church, and of marriage. It’s amazing He chose marriage to portray this picture, so Lord God, help us.
“I pray that You will bless every marriage and bring it into the oneness that You have designed for them. In the Name of Jesus, Amen.”
Blessings from Nancy Campbell
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Transcribed by Darlene Norris
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WOULD YOU LIKE TO ORGANIZE AN ABOVE RUBIES RETREAT IN YOUR STATE OR YOUR AREA?
EITHER A LADIES’ RETREAT OR A FAMILY CAMP.
It’s pretty easy. Just give me a call at 615 924 4455 and I can tell you what to do. Or email me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
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The production of the Lanford family: If you are anywhere near this area, here are the details:
ESTHER, THE CROWN IS YOURS
June 19th, at 2 pm and 7 pm
Bethany Church, Baker Campus
13855 Plank Rd, Baker, LA 70714
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SAVE THE DATE and register now for the . . .
ABOVE RUBIES FAMILY RETREAT
IN THE SMOKY MOUNTAINS
August 21 – 24 2026, Gatlinburg, Tennessee
Wafloy Retreat Center
3610 East Parkway, Gatlinburg TN 37738
For all enquiries contact:
Les and Connie Lanford: 225 335 3959
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lanfordlegacy.com/family-camp