FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 151:  FOLLOWING YOUR BENT

Nancy Webster joins me today, sharing how each one of  her eight children are “following their bent,” and using the gifts and talents that God uniquely gave to them. One of the greatest blessings for our children is for them to follow the bent that divinely belongs to them. And each one is different. You will enjoy this session.

Actually, we didn’t even plan on talking on the subject of “following your bent” but it just happened as we kept talking and so I believe it is what God wanted you to hear and I know you will be blessed.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies! I love being back with you every week. And today I have sitting beside me another Nancy! So today, our podcast is Nancy and Nancy. How do you like that?

Well, Nancy, it's so great to have you here. My husband and I have been in the States now for about 30 years. We came originally from New Zealand. We were ten years in Australia. Then we came here to this wonderful country of US of A. I met Nancy pretty well not long after we came, so we've known each other a long time.

Nancy is a wonderful wife and mother. I'm so thrilled to introduce her to you today. So Nancy, I'd like you to introduce yourself and just tell us about your family so they will feel as though they know you a little more.

Nancy W: OK. Well, first of all, I just told Nancy a second ago that I remember when she turned 60, and now I'm about to turn 62! Nancy said she's about to turn 80!

Nancy: Next month.

Nancy W: She was like my extra mom, I guess. And so influential. And we have eight children. And so influential in so many ways to help get me through that very hard journey! I'm still on it. So our oldest is 34 . . .

Nancy: Wow! I can remember coming to your home in Franklin, having a meal with you, and all the children . . .

Nancy W: Oh yeah. Meadow was a baby. She came with you all.

Nancy: You know, they were all so young then.

Nancy W: Yes, so he's married and in the military and just awesome. Flies helicopters. He's just awesome. They were all homeschooled. God taught them because I don't think I ever did a very good job! (laughter) It was big.

The first few, you know I had all the big plans. And then, little by little, it's like, “I am not Superwoman here!” But He did and they've all followed their bents and it's all turned out so cool.

Nancy: Just stop for a minute—because I love that phrase: “They have followed their bent.” That is so powerful, Nancy. And you know, it is true, yes, we are faithful to teach them godly principles, and God's ways, and everything we can. But ultimately, God has put within them that bent where they're meant to go. And I think that's the most wonderful thing of all when our children are following their bent.

Now sometimes children are pushed into things by their parents because that's the way they want them to go. And it may not be their bent. And I think when children find their bent, that's their God-given drive. That's the most wonderful thing. I believe if that happens, we've succeeded. You know?

Nancy W: Oh, I do too. As I tell younger mommies now who come ask me, “How did you do this homeschool thing with a ton of kids?” (I prefer the word children)! I'm like, “You can't.” (laughter) But if they will learn their four operations in math, be good at reading, you read aloud to them even when they know how to read already. I mean, my kids are all grown up, and if I'm reading a book . . .

Nancy: My children.

Nancy W: Oh, I'm not supposed to say “kids.” I'm sorry. (laughter) My lambs. My grown-up rams and ewes now. Anyway, they will still stop and listen. They love to be read to.

Nancy: Yes, and if they get a love for reading, they can learn anything they want in life.

Nancy W:  And they know reading is fun. Learning is fun. They know how. When they've got something that they're interested in, they know how to pursue and figure it out.

So like my oldest, he was ten-and-a-half before he could read. And I thought, “Oh my goodness, I'm a failure, I've gone through six phonics programs!” And then we were in this little homeschool coop with this lady who had two boys and they were writing book reports in cursive. And here was my ten-and-a-half-year-old who couldn't even read!

But he was busy taking things apart, and inventing things, and playing with helicopters. And guess what? He’s a mechanical engineer who flies helicopters. So it all worked out.

Nancy: Isn't that amazing!

Nancy W: Actually, it was getting Popular Mechanics magazines. He was like, “I want to learn to read this!” And that finally helped him over that hump.

Nancy: That's right! See, that was his bent! That's where his interest was. I have a dear friend in New Zealand and she has a similar testimony. She thought, “Oh goodness, this child is dumb!” He just couldn't seem to learn to read. There was something wrong with his brain! And about 12 years of age, he was still not reading.

She said, “One day, he just sat down and started reading medical journals!”

Nancy W: Oh wow!

Nancy: You know. Many will just do it when they're ready, at their time.

Nancy W: Yes, that's so true. I've read this book that Debbie Pearl wrote about the brain development,  oh gosh, I can't remember the name of it! But anyways, she's talking about, if you will just get them outside, and read to them, and do intellectual conversations around the dinner table, all this stuff is firing all these different neurons. It's so much better than just like . . .

Nancy: It is now. That's another thing you said. Those “intellectual discussions.” You see, they, I believe they begin to give incentive and develop brain power more than just sitting at a lesson. Intellectual discussions, and spiritual and biblical discussions too, are the most powerful things you can do.

Don't you love them? They're still my favorite thing in life! I mean . . .

Nancy W: Oh, yeah, oh yeah.

Nancy: To sit around the dinner table, and discuss, and debate, and talk is so incredible. And it's how we're meant to learn.

Nancy W: Yes. Oh yeah. Actually, when our first son was in, you call it boot camp, his basic training, they take everything away. But he could write letters home. He wrote and he said that the thing he missed the most was that we would get coffee and sit out on the deck for hours. And he especially, he and his dad, but all of us would talk, and everything. He said he really missed that. That was confirming, or affirming, I guess. That's what we'd been doing.

Nancy: So, next one.

Nancy W: OK, after him comes another boy, and that is, he is 30.

Nancy: You can say the name.

Nancy W: David. OK, the first one is Phillip, and this is David. David is married and has two little girls. He was like the most hyper kid, er, “child” in the world. We took him to Vanderbilt when he was seven. They had all this testing done, all this stuff, you know.

And he never, ever, ever finished one thing, but obviously was pretty brilliant, actually. Then we had testing confirmed that he was pretty brilliant. And God has opened doors for that boy. It's so cool. First he wanted to, of course, to support his family. He got married young. I think he was 22, or something like that. To Penny Raines' daughter, Georgia.

But anyway, God opened doors for him to have a friend teach him how to program computers. And now he works from home, in one of their bedrooms, and programs computers, and does very well.

I know, it's so fun, because I was getting a lot of pressure about, especially the boys going to college. And the older one did because he wanted to be a mechanical engineer, and that was where he knew he had to go through all that.

But David didn't. And he's doing way better than a lot of people with college degrees who are working at, you know . . .

Nancy: Once again, he's doing his bent.

Nancy W: He is. He's so good at it. He's so good. And he's a good daddy too.

And then we started up, oh goodness, are we going to get to have a girl. Because actually Phillip was two when we read The Way Home by Mary Pride.

Nancy: Oh yes!

Nancy W:  And I was instantly convicted, like, “Oh, we're praying for this good blessing of health, and a good job, and the other provisions, and we don't want this blessing of children? I'd gone to Planned Parenthood. We had been married almost seven years before we had our first baby.

Nancy: Wow!

Nancy W: We were poor. My husband was in seminary. And we didn't know. We didn't know the agendas and all the stuff we were missing out on. So anyway, about the time he turned two, it took some, we really eventually had to get on our knees and say, “Here (you can have our fertility),” and that was really pivotal in our whole life. It was so pivotal.

Nancy: Because up to that point you hadn't planned to have any more than two.

Nancy W: We were going to have two, three years apart, like normal people. And I totally get why people do that because it's easier. You save so much money. A lot of things. But a lot of it is, I think, people just don't know. They just don't know.

And women are saved through childbearing. I think that's because God knew, for me, I'm not dumb, and I'm pretty capable. He knew that I would be probably too self-sufficient for my own good. So he made sure, end of the story here, that I would not ever be able to be self-sufficient at all! And I'm not.

Nancy: I wonder if any of you have read Mary Pride's book, The Way Home. And then she wrote another one, All the Way Home. I don't even think it's in print now.

Nancy W: Probably not.

Nancy: You can go to Amazon, or some other place and get it. There's still loads of copies around. It's worth the read.

Nancy W: It is. It really is. I remember one of the things in her book. I read stuff, and then I'd just get the gist remembered, and I'd forget all the details. But I remember, by then, we had friends and cousins who were a little bit older.

So they were having special birthday parties where you had to invite all of your friends and go to these expensive places. I mean, way fancier than a McDonald's birthday party. Laser tag, or jump zone, or whatever.

And she said, because that cost a whole lot of money. And she said, “You know, a Betty Crocker cake mix,” which I wouldn't use anymore. But you get the gist of this here. And some streamers and pin the tail on the donkey just do fine for a party. And the simpler and cheaper, and she just started opening my eyes that they don't have to have everything fancy. Evangeline's like the queen of . . .

Nancy: Oh, yes.

Nancy W: Oh, she is, and creativity, and look at how her children have turned out. So after David, then we had our first girl, because I was kind of scared, “Oh no, we're not going to even get a girl,”  because I really wanted a girl.

Hahahaha, The joke was on me. We have Anna, and Anna is about to turn 30. She has two little girls and is hoping for more. She lives close by and she's taken everything that I started out to introduce her to, all my healthy cooking and handwork. She raised sheep and spun and wove and all of those things.

Nancy: She's just taken you.

Nancy W: She's taken everything that I introduced her to and then really run with it. So I go to her for advice.

Nancy: It's like with my girls. I gave them the love of food, and cooking, and creating, and that realm, but now I go to them for ideas.

Nancy W: I know, I know because they . . .

Nancy: They go on further from you, and that's what it's meant to be, isn't it? Generations going on more and more.

Nancy W: And it's so fun to get together sometimes and make sourdough English muffins, or whatever we do together. And then after Anna came Julie, 21 months later.

Also, with spacing, because of us saying here, “God . . . .” First, we helped a little bit. Phillip and David are two years and nine months to the day apart. And Anna was due exactly two years after David, but she came a few days early. So basically, they're two years apart.

Then came Julie. And they actually are closer, 21 months apart. Julie was drawing pictures from day one, and singing from day one, even though she was a teeny little thing. Now she's a graphic artist and she's putting her way through college. She decided actually to go to college when she was 26, 25 maybe. And she's putting her way through college. She's an opera singer. I mean she has such an amazing voice.

Nancy: Really? I didn't know that!

Nancy W: We just went to her junior recital, and it's like, “She's got a gorgeous voice! It's so cool.” She wore, for her dress she wore, it was the bridesmaid's dress for our wedding which was in 1987. And she's getting all these compliments. She's like, “Oh yeah, it was my aunt's bridesmaid's dress in my mom's wedding!”

So again, that bent thing, the art, and the music for her.

Nancy: Isn't that amazing? She's doing her bent!

Nancy W: And she's putting her way through school as did our oldest son because we never had the money to do it. So she prepaid it a whole lot. And it's hard for her.

And then, so we had two boys, and two girls, the perfect family. You're supposed to stop, right? And then we had our twins. And you remember them, Rachel and Grace. They just turned 25 a couple of months ago. Grace has Down Syndrome, and Rachel doesn't, so I say Grace came with a helper. And she did. She adores Rachel.

And I cried, of course, because my picture of how the ultimate to me is to get married and have babies. And likely, that's probably not in the picture for her in the same way. She's an awesome aunt.

Her sister Rachel, her twin sister, lives with Julie and has a job and is probably getting close to . . . A serious relationship seems to be developing. Which is her goal, she wants to do that. And she plays on the piano.

She bought her brother's little keyboard that he had outgrown for $25. And I was like, “I wonder why.” She was eight. It has the little lights on the keyboard when it played the Charlie Brown song, and she learned it! And then little things were, well, she's so musical, and to have . . . It's amazing, but we couldn't afford to ever do piano lessons.

Again, that's one of the reasons my parents were horrified that we were having so many kids - children! I'm sorry. Because then we couldn't give them all those advantages, you know? Well, again, God opened doors for Rachel. A lot of it is she used her own, “I'm going to learn this and do this,” and gifting.

Nancy: But then they have to do better when they have to do it themselves.

Nancy W: And they do because they really appreciate it, and they want it. So she could play way before she could ever read music. But God opened doors for her to have lessons with the keyboarder for this musician, I think he's probably your age. I think he's still singing, Neil Sedaka, if you ever heard of him.

But he's toured the whole world, and he's real famous. I'm so out of it, I wouldn't know his music if I heard it! But anyway, this guy, he's up in Franklin, and he has been his keyboardist for years and years, and so talented himself, and composes.  

God put them together. We met at a house concert at somebody's house, and now she can transpose, compose, I mean, yeah.

Nancy: That's so incredible!

Nancy W: She just got my mom's grand piano, so it's stuffed into their little teeny apartment, but she was determined to fit it in there when my mom passed away.

Nancy: And so even she is following her bent!

Nancy W: So she's following her bent!

Nancy: I just love this story!

Nancy W: Isn't that so fun? And so then Grace . . .

Nancy: Oh, just a minute. Lovely young mums, if you are listening, to be encouraged. I know that sometimes when you're homeschooling, and oh goodness, you feel like tearing your hair out, and you're wondering if you're making it, and are you really getting through? And are you getting any knowledge through? What's going to happen to these children?

Well, be encouraged. Those of us here, we've been there, but now we're looking back. And you look back and you see how God was in it. We just have to be faithful. I think faithful to teach the basics. Faithful to teach them of God's ways and His Word and pray for them. And give them opportunities and pray that God will take them into their destiny. And He will. He's faithful.

He created them for this specific purpose. He created them with a bent, and if we are in prayer and faithful, God will, He will take our children into their bent, and it's so exciting. I mean, look, you're telling this glorious testimony, and I look at my children, and I could not have ever dreamed in a million years of the things that they are doing today.

I mean, some of my children are doing things that are so out there, and so beyond. I mean, my brain couldn't have thought them up. But you see, God was watching over them and God was taking them into their bent, just as he did for your children. So be encouraged, young mums! It's so exciting!

Nancy W: Our house is a wreck. Our house is always a wreck because I'm super creative and always have projects going. And then I had all of them doing creative stuff too. We made baskets. I would read aloud. We'd do historical fiction for our history and I would read and read and read, all afternoon.

The girls would either be knitting, crocheting, or making baskets. Well, baskets are messy, and the reeds go spring! And they go flying across the room. And we had strung all over the room all these dyed reeds and everything. And then of course, all the wool.

And we had to run out because some sheep or goat had gotten out of the fence when we did all of our homesteading stuff. Anyway, I thought at our house, I just couldn't stay on top of it. And we couldn't do all the good school curriculum that I had bought. I gave away thousands of dollars’ worth of it.

It was all good, it was just too much. And yet, here's the end of “I feel like a failure.”

Nancy: You could have, “OK, we've got to get through this curriculum. And you've got to do every lesson. And maybe they wouldn't be doing their bent today. See, this is the thing. Those curriculums are great and wonderful, and the people who have put them together, that was perfect for their family. And then they've made it available to you, and often it's a great start.

But we don't have to be, “OK, we've got to do it exactly like this.” It can get us going, get us started, but we've always got to be open to the bent, to the destiny, to what God has created our child to do. And often, it's different  to anything we had ever done, but it's exciting, isn't it?

Nancy W: Oh, full of adventures! Full of adventures. Yes. And Greg and I so often will sit there because we've never, we've always struggled money-wise. But part of the reason is we're feeding a lot of people! But we feel so rich. We always, every time we're all together, we're going get together with everybody tomorrow. Is tomorrow . . . No, on Saturday.

Every time we get back in bed at night, we're like, “We're so rich, we're so rich.” We can take our children to Heaven with us. And all this other stuff that we work for, or try to clean or organize, or we're gorgeous and nice, and it makes life nice, but it's not worth giving up having the good family life.

Nancy: The richness. It is, I think family life are the riches of this world. And we are going to take them into glory with us as you said. I was thinking, the other day, when we see Him, we are going to be like Him, the Bible says.

And if we're going to be like Him, I mean, we know that we're going to know one another in heaven. But if we're going to be like Him, Who knows all things, I think we'll even know people, even who we haven't met. We will know them, and oh, we'll have fellowship with them. Do you know, fellowship, and fellowship begins in the family, doesn't it?

I think this is very important. You can grow up in a family where they don't really talk, and fellowship, and discuss, and debate. I mean, and you're missing out. But fellowship begins in the home, but it reaches out into the church. Fellowship, I mean the Bible talks so much about having fellowship with one another.

Fellowship is very close to the heart of God. It's in the heart of God. In the triune God there is fellowship. It begins in God. Everything that we have on earth begins with God. It begins with the heavenly. As in Heaven so on earth, the Bible says (Luke 11:2). And so, I believe the heavenly things of earth we'll take into Heaven.

I think of it in the way God orchestrated everything. He started with marriage and family. And then His chosen race, the Israeli people. And how, back in the Bible days, there in the wilderness, they were all in specific places. They just didn't live wherever they wanted. There was the family, and then the extended family, and that tribe. Each tribe was in a certain place and had their own flag.

I think that in Heaven, we're still going to be in families, in extended familes. God's not going to rip us away from family, that was so precious on earth, because it's so precious to Him. And I believe we'll take that into eternity. Yes!

Nancy W: Yes, that's exciting. It's all so comforting, that with everything being all uncertain, kind of creepy. You know, you can get really creeped out. But to know that in the blink of an eye, and this is all like our training ground anyway, for what's going to be forever.

Nancy: It is.

Nancy W: It's comforting, that's for sure.

Nancy: Anyway, this is so fun. I'm just, you're introducing your family, and it's, wow! It's just about taking a session! But it's so good! Keep going!

Nancy W: OK. So let's see, so Grace with Down Syndrome, April's twin, I call her my right-hand woman. She is truly my right-hand woman and she's my friend. And we do everything together.

Nancy: Isn't that beautiful?

Nancy W: I taught Grace; you know those little spool knitters? They've got four or five things in this little spool thingie that comes out . . . I'm talking with my hands, even though it doesn't show up on here.

Then we moved into a Knifty Knitter, which is a little bit bigger. And they've got all these different  looms, and they sell them at crafts stores. And she learned how to make one style of scarf when she was about 12, I guess. She made bunches of them, and then people would give her yarn.

So she made a bunch, and then it kinda, I thought, well, so I started advertising them. I'd take pictures of Grace with all of her scarves, and I would advertise them. Back then I was on Facebook. I've gotten off since then. But that was one way.

We would also have the little booth at the Down Syndrome Association's fundraiser thing. And so Grace has just, she says that's her business. And Greg made her a little business card. She makes scarves! And they're gorgeous! They really are!

Nancy: And she still sells them?

Nancy W: She's still making scarves. Yeah. But sometimes, if I can get my act together, see I have all these ideas, but real life is like, there's not much time. I still think it would be so cool to help her to have some sort of an organic bath and body products little business, because her stuff comes with a story. I also, this goes into the health side just a little bit...

Nancy: Let us just introduce this, as we're going through this time . . .

Nancy: You have always been interested, well you've got more interested and interested in health. And then recently you have studied to become, say the exact words . . .

Nancy W: I know, it's a mouthful. I just actually, tomorrow is the graduation ceremony, online of course. And it is to be a “Licensed Functional Nutrition Practitioner.” And it's through the Functional Nutrition Alliance.

Nancy: Congratulations!

Nancy W: Thank you! It's really cool. My bent, if you want to jump off kids, er, children for a minute, is in high school, we had Miss Brandon. She had the jars of the rice and the beans and stuff, like you, that impressed me early on. I was really drawn to that.

Mama’s cooking--it was tasty, but it was Betty Crocker. It was that generation. And she introduced me, Mrs. Brewer, she introduced me to Prevention Magazine, which . . .

Nancy: Yes, I remember that magazine.

Nancy W: Back then, that was probably the only health magazine. Now I've looked at one recently in a doctor's office, and I was like, “I don't think so.” 

Nancy: It's gone beyond that.

Nancy W: Oh, goodness yes But at the time, I remember Daddy took me to a health foods store. Again, that was nice of him to encourage my interest. I walked in, and, of course, I was totally overwhelmed. I was probably 15, or something like that.

Nancy: You know, just popping in there, doesn't it show you your bent is there, when you're young? You know, Serene, right from a little child, she was on health. I mean it was just there. And do you know her favorite thing in the whole of the world would be to go to a health shop? She would say, “Mum, just drop me off at the health shop.”

And she would sit there and she would just read books. And read them. She has never, ever in her life, not because I said, “You must not eat that,” she's never put into her mouth, in her whole life, how old is she now, 44?, one bad thing, one grain of sugar. She just couldn't! It was just who she was!

Nancy W: She knew, she knew. She knew earlier than I knew, how horrible it is for you. Yeah. My friends were reading Glamor and Teen magazine in high school, and I was reading health magazines!

Nancy: Yes! Yes!

Nancy W: And it continued. But I didn't have that background that Serene did, so I've eaten nearly every piece of junk they sold in the store. (laughter) But now, even though I've been eating better and better and better for the last 30 something years, those early indiscretions, or whatever you want to say, it was ignorance, still haunt me in things that I still struggle with in the physical side. So it matters. It matters what we feed to our children!

Nancy: It does. Yes, yes.

Nancy W: Even on the hard days, at least make scrambled eggs instead of high-fructose corn syrup peanut butter and jelly!

Nancy: Those cardboard box cereals, I mean that is really, perhaps the most common breakfast recipe for most families across the USA. Just get out the cereal package. And look at it. You can't even believe it.

Nancy W: Extruded grains are so horrible.

Nancy: It's not even, it doesn't even look like the original!

Nancy W: Even the Kashi brand, the health food brand, even they have extruded, not properly processed grains.

Nancy: It's not. And I always say to people, “You might as well eat the cardboard!” I mean, really! You're going to get as much out of the cardboard.

Nancy W: They put so much sugar on a lot of it that makes it palatable.

Nancy: I just delight in making an original raw, not raw, because I will cook it, but an original breakfast.

Nancy W: Yes, from scratch, from scratch.

Nancy: Oh, so wonderful! Beautiful steel-cut oats, whatever. It's so good.

Nancy W: I know. I just have that domestic little thing. Like sometimes if I can, I've canned a bunch of meat, because we didn't have room in our freezer. Plus our freezers have let us down so many times.

Nancy: I know, that's terrible, isn't it?

Nancy W: Ohhhh! And then when it pings, if anyone's listening who cans, will understand that ping, that means it's sealed right.

Nancy: I love it.

Nancy W: And then, and usually I'm exhausted, I look at all those jars, those gorgeous jars that I have on the counter still. And it's just the most satisfying feeling. Or you make a beautiful meal, or whatever. It's so, it’s a domestic thing, I guess, and I love it!

OK, so let's see, Grace, oh yeah. This is why we got off onto health. I heard that people with Down Syndrome, if you can help them to eat healthy and stay trim before adolescence, and let them go into adolescence being that way, that they've got a great chance to continue that way. Because before Down, a lot of time, since they put on . . . they have thyroid issues.

But a lot of it, I think a lot of times, parents’ kind of feel sorry for them a little bit, maybe, and let them indulge in stuff that's really awful for them. A lot of them, they do have a health disadvantage. But they are little sinners, just like the rest of us. So they need to be trained and treated just like . . .

But here's the other thing. I had all these therapies. The therapy people came to our house. So we have six children nine and under with Down Syndrome.

Nancy: You mean, you didn't have six, you had one with Down Syndrome.

Nancy W: Right. And then the twins. So we had four therapists a week come to the house. I was so mortified, because, our house looked, of course, I was like, it was good to get anything out. We ate cereal then, and I got stressed all the time, and I wound up depressed.

My hormones got all messed up, so they put me on antidepressants. It was nutritional, and situational. It was very exhausting. But I think if I'd had the nutrition, it would have supported. Anyway, we did get her through there.

Nancy: Did you find all those therapies helped?

Nancy W: No. So they would come. I'm glad you asked. They would come, and they would say, “Oh, you've done such a great job!” No, I didn't do anything that they told me, because I just couldn't practice. But the brothers and the sisters would put her in a blanket, and roll her around, and stuff things in her face.

I tell all the people who now I talk to who have a child with Down, especially new mommies who were feeling all worried like I was. The best gift that you can give to your child with Down is siblings, and letting them play rough with them, and all of that kind of stuff, because it's so stimulating to them.

Nancy: It's therapy!

Nancy W: Muscle strengthening. So that ended up being the best therapy of all! Anyway, I know we need to move on. So from her, then we had Lily. And Lily was born with dislocated hips, so her first year she spent in a cast with her legs spread apart like a frog. It was horrible.

Then she had heart issues and had to have surgery when she was seven. She does not have Down Syndrome, but she is on the autism spectrum. And she's definitely been, and still is, our most challenging child.

Underneath the hard behavior is this super-sweet, very gifted. She started writing poetry. She can draw. But she's why God knew I needed icing on the cake to stay on my knees. I will say that, yeah. And we are still praying to know how it's all going to come. Because we are getting older, and she and Grace will probably live with us. Just a continued prayer, to know.

The Bible says He'll give us wisdom, and so far, it seems like it's working out. So as we, He will, and towards that. So that's where we're at with Lily.

And then our last one, I was 42. I remember, I was pretty pregnant, and we came to an Above Rubies retreat when I was pregnant. At that point, oh, well I was. And then we went to another one after he was born.

When I was going to have him at home, I had gotten off on the whole all-raw jag, and thought I was feeding my baby well. While he was growing, I was eating a sweet potato and salad, and I wasn't getting the protein and the healthy fats that I needed. Meanwhile, I was the one who did the sugar. I had never kicked that. I know, it's really terrible. It's sad, actually.

And also, our very first child was a c-section. All the others had been v-bacs, including the twins, and even the second twin came out breech, by the way.

Nancy: When I had my twins, the second was breech. There's usually one breech. (Actually, the first twin was breech, just remembered)!

Nancy W: Well, that's kind of nice, because the first one can pave the way. I hate it when people have children, twins, and the first one comes out, and then after, the c-section. So it's sad. But, oh gosh, where was I?

Nancy: You were just telling me about number eight.

Nancy W: Yes. We're doing a home birth, and we had, of course . . .  Number four was our first home birth. And then the twins were number five and six. But we thought they were just number five, until three weeks before they were born, full-term. So we quickly switched and went to the midwife's back-up doctor.

Then number seven was a home birth, and then number eight was to be a home birth. And I had gotten to ten and pushed for two hours. The others, by then, they were just popping out. It was like God told me; it feels like I heard a voice. I don't think probably I really did, but I was just at such total peace. because I'd vowed I'd never get another c-section. And he said, “You need to go to the hospital.”

After like two hours here. Later Greg and the midwife came over. They pretty much confirmed we need to go. Of course, it's the middle of the night. We live 30 minutes from the little dinky town, and so we obliterate a possum as I'm panting, trying not to . . . Because I'd already been at ten and pushing for two hours.

We get to the hospital. Of course, in the nighttime, the only OB had gone home for the night. We had to wake him up. The nurses were like, “You can push this baby out!” The midwife went, “No, something's not right. I've delivered a bunch of her babies now.”

Long story short, my uterus ruptured. It would have happened had I been at a hospital too. It's just this awful thing and I didn't know. I thought I was just going to get a c-section when they clamped that oxygen over my mouth finally after the doctor got there.

When I woke up, there's a nurse in my face. “Don't you ever get pregnant again!” And they had been able to stop the bleeding without taking my uterus. Sometimes they have to do that in that situation. But it totally wiped me down for a year. I was so anemic.

It was a boy, Andrew, which God knew we were going to need a boy on the end for his muscles. It's so awesome. And he helps us chop wood and do all these cool things.

Nancy: And what's he doing today?

Nancy W: He works at Chick-Fil-A, and everybody loves him. He's just super friendly, and everybody loves him. So that's what he's doing at the moment. He's nineteen, and he had a little oxygen deprivation, so he has a lot of learning challenges. We're getting there with him. I think he's going to be really good, as long as solid people mentor him. He's a good kid.

Nancy: Wow! Well, we have come to the end of this session, and we've just introduced your family! But I believe just God was directing us. It was just beautiful how we could see how God has . . . your children have gone in the bent that God has for them.

You mentioned as we went along, that you've had very, very challenging times. It hasn't always been easy. But as you look back now, what would you say, Nancy?

Nancy W: Oh, we'd do it all over again! We would. We would. Yes.

Nancy: Every one of those children are your riches, aren't they?

Nancy W: For sure. We really do. We feel rich.

Nancy: Yes. Amen! Well, we're going to have to do another session together and get onto some other things that we want to talk about now that they all know about your family. So we'll close this session, ladies, and we're going to do another session with Nancy.

“Father, we thank You that You are a family God. You are the One Who designed family. We thank You that Your hand is upon each one of our children. Lord God, we thank You that we can put them into Your care, and Lord, know that You love them, even more than we love them.

“And we thank You. Father. We pray for every mother listening today. Older mothers, middling mothers, and young mothers. Encourage them, Father. Oh God, just fill them with Your joy. Let them, Oh God, receive that joy of knowing they're in Your perfect will. And Lord, that they are preparing children for the destiny that You planned for them and preparing them for eternity.

“We thank You, Father, that You have written a book about each one of our children, even before they were born. So we just praise You today, and thank You Lord, that we can talk about family together. In the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Nancy W: Amen.

Blessings from Nancy Campbell * www.aboverubies.org * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 150 –  THE CHALLENGES OF WELCOMING CHILDREN

Sonia Ramsay from Oregon joins me today. You will be blessed as you listen to her story. Sonia began her  married life with the vision to welcome children, but it wasn't all plain sailing. She was challenged by infertility, miscarriages, a difficult adoption, and then conceiving a Down's Syndrome baby. If you have faced any of these issues, you will want to tune in. 

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Well, hello again, ladies! Now today I have with me Sonia Ramsay, all the way from Oregon. Now Sonia, she has been organizing Above Rubies retreats for ladies, and then family camps for quite a number of years now, up there in Oregon. So I got to know Sonia over the years. And it's such a joy to now actually have her right here in my home!

And even better than that, we have just had her beautiful daughter, Ellie, with us for three months as an Above Rubies girl. She has been such an amazing blessing. It's just been a joy to have her here.

Colin and I are so blessed, having these Above Rubies girls come into our home. They always come from the most beautiful families, and Colin and I say we have the cream of the earth coming into our home. We're so blessed. And they help me in the ministry of Above Rubies during the week. Then the weekend, they have time to have fun, go out with all the young people on the Hilltop, well, they do through the week as well. But it's a great time.

Well, now, Sonia is here to rescue Ellie (laughter) and take her back home again. I think that they are pretty desperate to get her back after being away for three months. I don't think she planned to stay for three months.

Sonia: No, she planned to be gone for two months! She had a lot of fun though and it worked out.

Nancy: Yes, it's been great. Well anyway, Sonia actually came about four or five weeks ago because they are deciding to look at some property down here in Tennessee. And when she came, we did a podcast together, but you never ever heard it because it disappeared into cyberspace! We don't know where it went! I've had that happen a few times.

So amazingly, Sonia is here again, so praise the Lord, because living up in Oregon it could have been OK, that's it, we'll never get a chance to do it!  But here she is this morning, so it's worked out so wonderfully.

Now in the new magazine, Above Rubies, # 98, it's rolling off the presses now. You should be getting it very, very soon. I told you were getting it earlier. But I got it all together, and then I still had to wait for my turn on the presses. It's printed on the great big web presses and sometimes we have to wait our turn to get on. But anyway, it's just about finished printing now, and you can be looking forward to seeing it.

And in this new Above Rubies Sonia has written her testimony. It is called, what did we call it? “Am I A Child Welcomer?” That was huge question, because Sonia went into marriage with a longing for children, and just longing to welcome children into her home. But it didn't actually happen straightaway, did it?

Sonia: No.

Nancy: Wow. That can be pretty hard when you're just wanting to have children. I know some of our lovely young couples on the Hilltop that got married, and they've been hoping for honeymoon babies! Because they all want children! And some have had honeymoon babies. And others have to wait. You just never know. You can't plan it. It's God Who is in control, isn't He?

So what happened, Sonia, when you first got married? How did you feel with no babies coming on?

Sonia: Yes, it was so sad! We were ready and we were praying, “Lord, we'd love to have some children,” and then waiting and waiting. A few years went by. We were seeing doctors, and they said, “Well, we don't know what's wrong. We don't know why.” They said, “Well, you can do whatever you want to do. We'll write a prescription. You just tell us what you want.”

We said, “Well, we don't know. We'll just pray, for now.” They said, “OK, well, call us when you're ready. So we prayed, and we had friends praying. So we actually decided to go to an adoption seminar. We snuck away because it was nothing we were familiar with.

We heard how adoption is a picture of the Gospel and how we're adopted as God's children, and so when we adopt it's very much part of God's plan to show the world the picture of the real Gospel. And we got excited, and I thought, “Oh, we're going to be parents! It's going to be great! We can do this!”

And so, shortly thereafter, we became pregnant, and we were convinced though, that the Lord wanted us to move in the direction of adoption before He was going to give us a biological child. So we knew already, OK, even though He's given us a biological child, we were supposed to adopt. We know that now.

Nancy: Yes.

Sonia: So we went ahead and did that after our oldest was two.

Nancy: Yes, that's wonderful! So you went from this heartache of infertility, then the blessing of a baby. That was so wonderful! You know, I've had testimonies of some couples who have waited and waited and longed and longed. And after ten years, got a baby! You never give up! You never give up, because God can always come with a surprise!

Sonia: That's right!

Nancy: Yes, yes. And so you know, you started out thinking, “Oh, will we ever have babies?” but today, you are blessed with nine children!

Sonia: We  have nine!

Nancy: Isn't that just so amazing?

Sonia:  It is amazing!

Nancy: Oh, God is just so good! But if, you know, you had lots of challenges along the way, yes. So you adopted. First of all, you adopted two.

Sonia: One to start with. She's from Vietnam.

Nancy: Vietnam?

Sonia: Yep, then the next one we adopted from Ethiopia. And then after that China.

Nancy: Yes. What happened then?

Sonia: The first two girls were babies when we brought them home. And there were some challenges, so we worked through those. Our little guy from China came home at two-and-a-half, and he had some special needs we didn't know about. So when he came home, he was just very terrified. He had a lot of institutionalized behavior and it made it just very disruptive in our house.

There was really a lot of screaming. We couldn't go anywhere. If we walked into the church foyer, he was overstimulated and would just go off like a siren. We couldn't stop him. He would not settle down, no matter how long we would sit. I would have to run to the car and sit down.

So that went on for a year. I would get screamed out of Costco and everywhere.

Nancy: You couldn't go anywhere else.

Sonia:  No. And I kept trying. I would go on a field trip and I'd have to leave. I'd go to Costco, and I'd have to leave. I was like, everywhere I went for the first year, I'd have to turn around and go back home. It was very . . . we went through a lot of depressing times. There was just no peace in our home, with any of us, because he was just always having trouble.

Now I look back on it, and I see that he was afraid, and was having a hard time. He didn't have any coping skills, and he just needed to learn those things. He didn't know if he could trust us. You know, it's that kind of stuff, but living through it is very difficult.

Nancy: I think some of you who have adopted children, you've faced some of the situations like this. It can be very challenging. So here you were, Sonia, this wonderful, child-welcoming mother, how did you feel when you were going through this?

Sonia: So at that point, from the miraculous bringing home, having our first child, and then having everything worked out for adoption, we waited another two years, and had another. We had infertility more than once. So every time we've had a child, we've brought home, we've been so thankful and so excited, and so amazing.

And then he comes home, our little guy from China, and I came home and told my husband, “No more children! I do not want any more children!” And I had never said that. I never even thought that. I just said, “The more the merrier.”

Nancy: And now this was happening.

Sonia: So we knew there was something wrong. I had had it! My attitude was so bad. It took about a week, I think, maybe a week or two. And I was able to see that, OK, I am not acting in God's will here, and my own frustration is causing my judgment. I repented of that, and I came back to my husband and said, “OK, I'm back. I will accept whatever God wants. But I'm still having a hard time here.”

And he was too. The whole family was. It was a difficult time. It was about two years of very dark times for us to work through.

Nancy: And how is he now?

Sonia: Oh, he's great. He's great. He was non-verbal when he first came home for the first year or two. And then he started talking. And now he's doesn't stop! Ever. We say, “OK, you can take a break now!” (laughter)

But no, he's happy to be here. He just loves life. He likes to eat. He likes to dance. He likes to pester people. So daily, I still have challenges with him. He'll still have fits, but they will settle down. He responds well to my husband, so sometimes I have to call him at work and say, “Will you talk to him over the phone?” And he'll settle. But it's not anything like it was.

It's still challenging. We have frustrations. We're still limited to what we can do. I choose not to go on field trips anymore. It just is too hard. But he just turned ten. And he's doing so much better.

Nancy: Oh, that's so wonderful! Well, Sonia has, did we tell you, her children Ellie, well, this is Ellie who was with us. She is 17, and such a beautiful girl. And they have Shailee.

Sonia:  Shailee.

Nancy: Shailee, you say. She's from . . .

Sonia:  She's from Vietnam.

Nancy: Vietnam. And then Asher is . .  .

Sonia: Twelve. I had him.

Nancy: Yes, biological. And Atlee.

Sonia:  Atlee is from Ethiopia.

Nancy: Ethiopia. Ezekiel . . .

Sonia:  I had him.

Nancy: Ezekiel, yes. Nehemiah . . .

Sonia: Nehemiah is from China.

Nancy: I know. And then you had Shepherd.

Sonia:  Yes.

Nancy: And then you had Elisha.

Sonia: Yes.

Nancy: And then you had infertility again.

Sonia:  Well, we had . . . there's a five-year gap between Shepherd and Elisha. We had many miscarriages. And then a time of no pregnancies at all for about two years.

Nancy: Wow! That's amazing.

Sonia:  It was!

Nancy: Yes! Oh, how did you feel during that time, having miscarriages?

Sonia: The miscarriages were very hard. I had a hemorrhage that I lost half my blood supply, thought I was going to die. So it was just, I was very sick at the time. Also, outside of just the miscarriages, it was a hard time.

And then I wasn't getting pregnant anymore, and I thought, “Well, OK, I guess we're done. Sounds like God has closed that time in our lives, and we're just going to be thankful for what we have.” And I still wanted more, but I just figured we were done.

And I thought, “Well, I can go on a mission trip now because I'm not pregnant or nursing, and I'm going to do these things that I've been putting off a little bit.” And then I found out I was pregnant with Elisha. And I went, “Oh, OK, I guess I'm not going on a mission trip!”

Nancy: Oh wow!

Sonia: Yes, he was a surprise. And I was so excited! I felt like wearing him in my carrier and walking across the street in the parking lot. I felt like I had a trophy in my arms, that God had just given me this reward. Not even of my own, obviously not my own decision. Such a blessing!

Nancy: Yes! How wonderful!

Sonia: It was so funny, I was looking at all the other people and I thought, do they see him? Do they see what God has done?

Nancy: How wonderful!

Sonia: Yes, it was exciting.

Nancy: And then time went on, and you had another surprise.

Sonia: And then another one! Yes! Shocking. We thought maybe Elisha was our last little bonus, but no, Noah came along.

Nancy: And you were so excited!

Sonia: Yes, very excited, but I had just miscarried, right before him. And so, he came along, and in my house, I've had enough miscarriages that we don't talk about when the baby comes. We say if the baby comes. And the children know that. If we get to keep this one, we'll be so excited. And we celebrate every day of a pregnancy because you never know how long it will last. 

So yes, we just kept going, and everything was going well. And I felt so good, so good in fact, that I didn't have any symptoms. I was a little nervous to see that strong heartbeat, to see he was in there.

Nancy: And you were in your forties now?

Sonia:  Yes, I was 42 at the time.

Nancy: And yes, being blessed with another baby. You know, I think out there in the secular world, so many women don't understand that to have a baby in your forties is very normal. I mean, it's not normal in our society, but it's normal in God's economy. When you think of how God created that . . .

Isn't it amazing how we seem to forget how God created us? Because he created women to go through menopause around about the age of 50. Some will go through earlier, and just a very special one, maybe a little later. But He didn't plan for us to go through menopause, say at 35, or something like that.

Which means we are still in our childbearing years until we reach menopause. That's how God created us. And so therefore, it is normal to become pregnant, if the Lord should choose, even in your forties. And you were saying how you were feeling so good, and I have found so many women testify to this.

Often at an Above Rubies retreat, that question will come up. You know, “What about having babies in your forties?” And so I will say, “Well, who . . . ? Who had a baby in their forties here?” And so many hands will go up. And I say, “OK, let's hear your testimonies.”

So many will say, “It was” (or were, depending on if it was one, or even two, maybe three, in their forties), “my best birth, and my best pregnancy.” It seems as though God puts a special blessing and anointing on those who are in their forties. Because they're always saying, “It was my best pregnancy! My best birth!” You know?

Sonia:  I think that's so great! And people will say to me,  “I can't have any more children. It was so hard. My last one, when I was 30, or 32. And if I'm so much older, it will be that much harder.” I always tell them, “That's not my experience. I had some harder ones, and this one was not bad.”

Nancy: Yes. Yes. You had a beautiful birth with Noah, didn't you?

Sonia:  Yes, it was miraculous! Nothing short of miraculous.

Nancy: Yes, anyway, tell us all about the story of Noah.

Sonia: OK, at my 20-week ultrasound, we went in, and had no idea that anything might be different. And we found out that we were having another boy. He's our sixth boy. So we were so excited about that. We move on. It was on my birthday I went in, and I can tell the children on my birthday, that “Oh, we're having a brother!”

So I got a call about a week later, and they said, well, he has a soft marker, not a hard marker, but a soft one. They couldn't find his nasal bone, and “That could be a marker for some genetic abnormality, so you should probably do genetic testing.” Well, I was planning a homebirth, and my midwife agreed we should know what we're working with, so go ahead and do the testing.

Well, I blew it off, and said, “Oh, I'm sure it's nothing.” And about a month later, she called and said, “Well, did you get it done?” And I said,” No, I'm too busy. OK, I'll go in.” So I went, did the testing, and the doctor called me back and said, “You've tested positive for trisomy 21, which is Down's Syndrome.”

I will never forget that phone call. I just went, “Wow. OK. How about that?” Never crossed my mind that that was even a possibility. So it took a while for that to kind of sink in. Now our little Nehemiah from China has special needs, so it wasn't just him coming home and having a hard time. He also has some significant delays in his development, so we know that he'll be with us for the rest of his life.

So when I heard that Noah also was likely going to be with us, that was hard for us. That was really hard. I cried, a lot. And I went and actually called my husband at work. I shouldn't probably have done that to him, right in the middle of his workday. But I had told him, and he said, “Well, how am I supposed to work now?”

I said, “I don't know.” I said, “Why don't I come and have lunch with you?” He said, “OK.” So I took off driving to meet him at a restaurant. And on the way, I'm crying, and crying to God, and just saying, “I need You to speak truth here to me, because this does not look like a blessing. Help me. I need to hear Your voice right now.” And a song came on the radio. Now I can't think of the name of it, but I think I put it in the article.

Nancy: Yes, you did! I think this thing, because I have this here, actually. And...anyway, we'll repeat it.

Sonia: OK. So the song came on that basically talks about there's  . . .  “Reckless Love,” yes, by Cory Asbury. So he talks about, “There's no wall You won't kick down, no lie You won't tear down,” and I thought, “OK, thank You, Lord. You won't leave me in lies. You're going to show me the truth here.” So I felt like He had given me that back, and just right away, He gave me Noah, the story of Noah. And Noah, let me backtrack.

Part of my fit-throwing to God was that we tend to be kind of private. And I don't mind dealing with things in our home, but I don't want everybody to know. I don't share medical things with just everybody that sees us. I thought, Down's Syndrome is so public! Everyone who ever sees him will know exactly what is going on.

And I felt like that was going to be an invasion of our privacy, to not be able to just say, you know, “It's our thing.” And so it's like, Lord, everybody's going to see, and then they'll make judgments. I felt like people will just immediately see him and judge him and us.

The story of Noah is that God gives Noah a very public ministry. “Make this enormous ark for everyone to see.” It's going to be a ministry for his entire family. They all need to work together to accomplish this purpose. Everyone who ever walks by will know what they're doing if they accept the mission He gave them.

They could have walked away and said, “We don't want to look different. We don't want people to know that You've given us such a huge task. They'll think we're crazy.” But they said, “OK.” It just says, “And Noah did as God said.” It doesn't take to throw a fit. (laughter)

Maybe he did, but they didn't record it! He didn't throw a fit! So this family was going to work on this ministry for a very long time, like a hundred years. They were going to do it, and they would be mocked. They never converted anyone to realizing this was God's plan for them. So they were considered, most likely, fools to be doing this.

I thought, “OK, Lord, if that's what You want, if my family is to build an ark, a public ark, OK, what can we say? We must say 'Yes.'”

Nancy: Yes.

Sonia:  And then, immediately, oh, part of that was also that, everyone who saw it, would know that they were doing the Lord's will, because He would say God told us to do this. But anybody who did not accept this as God's plan, and the revelation of His truth, were going to die. Basically, this was the symbol of something that God was giving them. So I was thinking, “OK, we're going to do this, and we're going to say, “We do love life, and we are going to take this ministry on, even though the doctors are saying I should discontinue my pregnancy.”

Nancy: Yes, you always get faced with that.

Sonia: Yes, every single doctor I spoke with said if you can feel . . .

Nancy: Isn't that so sad?

Sonia: I can't even understand that.

Nancy: Yes, especially when you look at Noah today, how can you believe that they could even say it?

Sonia: It's just terrible. It's terrible, what they do. And so they scare these poor women into aborting their babies.

So I also thought immediately, right after that, John the Baptist comes to mind. And he stood outside of the cities, and he dressed differently, and he spoke differently, and he even ate differently. But he was out there, speaking the truth of life for anyone who would hear it. And so it was very . . . This baby doesn't need to look like everybody else to be speaking the Word of God.

Nancy: Yes, that's right.

Sonia: So those two came to my mind. I shared them with my husband. We sat quietly, just kind of stared off in the restaurant, like, “Wow, this is going to be big!” And I would love to say that at that point we were, “Oh, we're just going to embrace what God gave us!”

But we didn't. We stayed in our feeling-sorry-for-ourselves and foot-stomping. One moment I'd be OK. The next moment I'd be crying and saying, “I don't want to do this! It's going to be hard, and I don't want hard! I've had enough hard!” And then I'd feel OK. Now I'm up, now I'm down, I'm up. It was just . . . I was a mess for several months.

And I had friends that I would, I shared with a few people, and they would keep saying, “Oh, you're so blessed,” and I said, “I don't feel blessed!” But you are, and you will see. So we just kept moving forward in faith.

And a lesson that I did learn through adoption, when you are looking at, any of you who are mulling with adoption know that during the process they ask you, “What disabilities will you accept in the child?” You actually have to go through them, like check boxes, which seems so terrible.  Like, “Well don't ask me. Just give me a child!”

And so we wrestled out some of those things, and ultimately it came down to I feel like God asked me, “Maybe you wouldn't have decided to create this child with these needs, and then have them in an orphanage. That wouldn't be My idea. That sounds like a bad idea to me.”

But God already chose that for that child, so the question now is not, ”Do you think this is a good idea?” But “Are you willing to walk with that child through life and help them?” So we had to say, “Are we or not? Yes, we are.” So we accepted some needs.

So again, that came back to me. You may not have thought it was a good idea to make a baby that has Down's Syndrome, but God did, and He decided that was going to be what Noah was going to walk. “Are you willing to walk it with him?” I had to say, “I guess we are. You gave him to us. I guess we are.”

So yeah, and then we, I needed something. I felt more detached from him, because of this. And so I asked God for something, something that would help me bond with him. And I went to an ultrasound and in the ultrasound, we saw him really clearly just yawn. And it was the sweetest, little yawn. And I just went, “Oh, thank You! That's what I needed! Thank You!”

He just seemed like a baby again to me, not a problem. Like, oh, you know. So from that point forward, I was able to start feeling like “OK, we can do this. We can do it.”

But my last two deliveries were very difficult, and I always have very long, drawn-out 36-hour type deliveries. My last two were particularly difficult. And I was filled with fear over my last one, kind of a trauma from the one before.

I felt a peace, from the very beginning, that this pregnancy was going to go fine. It was a supernatural peace, because I'm more of a worrier by nature. So I kept asking God, “Please give me a manageable delivery, just a manageable one. And sure, I know I feel selfish, but can I have a short one?” And I just had peace. OK, this is, “I feel like You can give me that.”

So labor starts, and I'm settling in for a few days’ worth of this. I didn't call anybody. I just, my husband got ready for work. He said, “Should I go to work? Are we in for the day-long delivery? And I said, “I don't know. Maybe you should hang out, and we'll see.”

So I text my midwife, and I said, “You know what, these contractions are pretty tight and close together. But I'm fine, I'm managing.” And she said, “Well, why don't you get in the bath? See if you regulate into a rhythm.” OK, so I jumped into the bath and fall asleep for about 45 minutes.

Nancy: Oh, how beautiful!

Sonia: Yes, it was nice. My husband's out playing a word game on his phone or something. And I come out and start feeling like, “Oh, it'll be nice when I push a little.” And I was like, “Oh, wait a minute. Now I can't be ready to push. I haven't had enough torture. (laughter) This can't be right!”

And so I told my husband, “Maybe we should call,” and he said, “I don't want to deliver the baby!”

And I said “Well, you might have to.” So he called, and she said, “I'm on my way! Get in the position where you don't feel that” because I have weird labors where I can stall. So I did, OK, we'll wait it out. They came running over to my house. The team comes in, and he was born within about five minutes.

Nancy: How amazing!

Sonia:  I kept saying, “I can't believe I had a baby! I feel great!” It was only like five hours or so. Oh, unbelievable! It was a miracle.

Nancy: Oh, yes!

Sonia: And as soon as he came out, we looked at him, just to check him out. “Well, is it really Down's Syndrome or not?” And we saw little markers on him, and said, “Yes, he sure does.” And he was just the sweetest little guy. WE WERE IN LOVE.

Nancy: Oh yes, and so you know now, wow, just tell us how, what a blessing he is.

Sonia: Oh, as soon as he was born, within about an hour, I'm lying there in my bed, just happy as a clam, looking at the baby. And it hit me! That the entire pregnancy I had been thinking, “This is going to be so hard for us. We're going to have him with us forever. We have these two boys, and it's just going to be not what we had envisioned years ago. And how difficult for us.”

And then I thought, “How selfish have we been! We were only thinking of ourselves. And now that he's here, all I can think of is, “How is this going to affect his life? What's it going to be like for him? How can we help him become everything that God wants him to be?” And our focus completely shifted to him. And I love that He gave me that, because I felt like I hadn't even really seen how self-centered I had been.

And he has been nothing but JOY in our family. All the children want to hold him. He smiles, he coos, he loves everybody. And he's just a very content happy baby, and I thank God every day that He didn't listen to me in my fit that He knew what I needed. He knew what was going to be a blessing, and that His Word really is true, that children are a blessing. So it was just, it's been, he's been an amazing testimony. I love sharing it with anybody who will listen.

Nancy: So wonderful! Thank you for sharing, Sonia, and you will be able to read Sonia's testimony again when you get the magazine! You will just love it, and I think it just means so much more when you actually hear from someone personally. You'll be able to share it with others also.

Now, I know most of you are on the mailing list to get Above Rubies, but if you are not, just send in your address. Now that means you can do that from any country you live in. We send Above Rubies out all over the world, so wherever you live, and you're listening to this today, if you're not on the mailing list, don't forget to send in your name and address and we'll get the magazine to you.

Oh, by the way, anybody in any Asian countries and in Singapore, our dear lady who's been looking after there for many years, sadly, her mailing list disappeared! We've lost your names! So please send them in if you are listening to this today.

Now as we close, I just love to give you a Scripture. I always love to give you a Scripture so you're getting the Word. I love these words in Psalm 107, the last few verses. Verses 41-43: “He setteth the poor on high from affliction, and maketh him families like a flock.”

God loves family! He loves to make families. God is the One Who makes families! He's the One Who gives conception. I mean, we can stop Him making our families, by stopping Him giving us conception. But God wants to make families like a flock.

Now, the one or two children, which is the average for today in our nation, is not really a flock. When you see a flock of sheep, you don't see one or two sheep. You see a little flock. And this is talking about the Middle Eastern flock. They were a small flock of sheep, not like in New Zealand, where I come from where they have thousands of sheep!

But it's that beautiful flock, where the shepherd is leading his flock. And it goes to say, “The righteous shall see it, and rejoice, and all iniquity shall stop her mouth.” I love that. “Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the Lord.”

You know, when a couple, when a family are having another baby, how do we react? “Oh, no, you're not having another one, are you?” Well, what are we doing when we say that? We are totally opposite to God's heart, because it's God Who makes families. God, Who loves to give conception. But what does it say>? “the wise, the wise they observe, they see it, and they praise the Lord, and they know that it is the goodness and the loving kindness of the Lord.”

So we've been blessed to hear of the beautiful loving kindness of the Lord to Sonia, and her husband, Kaleb. And how He's blessed them with these nine beautiful children  when they thought they may not be able to have any. Isn't God good?

Sonia: Oh, He's so good!

Nancy: Yes, well bless the Lord. We'll pray:

“Dear Father, we just thank You for another beautiful family testimony, and the way You have been building this beautiful Ramsay family. Lord, God, it wasn't always easy for Sonia, but You showed her Lord, how to be a mother who welcomes children, no matter what the circumstances. And Lord, You blessed them beyond measure.

We just thank You, Lord. Your ways are beyond our ways. They're so glorious. Help us, Lord, to always be on Your side, that we will think Your thoughts, and Lord, we won't grovel down in our own pitiful  thoughts. That we will come up to Your glorious plan, and know the joy of family, and how You love to build families. We just thank You in Jesus'\ Name. Amen.”

Transcribed by Darlene Norris

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FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 149 –  WHAT DOES GOD SAY ABOUT HAVING CHILDREN? Part 3.

What is God's promise to you as a mother? That you will be saved, delivered, protected, preserved, healed, and made whole! Is this really true? Tune in, and discover what God has to say in His Word.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, lovely ladies! And to all who are listening, grandmothers, mothers, young people, even children. I think some of the children love to listen too. It doesn't matter what age, we all need to hear God's truth, don't we?

In fact, I think it's wonderful for children and young people to hear these truths that we are talking about, not when they get older, but now, when they are younger. In fact, the things that I'm going to talk to you about today are so powerful, and so needed for people to hear and to understand truth. Usually I pray for you at the end of each session, but I want to pray right as we start today.

Dear Father, I pray that as we open Your Word again today, that You will bring Your revelation, Your understanding. Lord, we are bombarded with all that the world is saying. But it's so opposite to Your Word. I pray that Your living Word will take hold of us, become part of us, and we will begin to live it out. I pray for revelation to come to every house today. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

Well, this is our third session, speaking about What Does God Have To Say About Having Children? Yes, I'm up to my third session and I have so much to share with you today. I hope we can fit it all in.

Let's go for a start to Jeremiah 1:5: God is speaking, and He says: “Before I formed thee in the womb, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”

Let's look at it a little closely because these are the words of God. God is speaking. When we read the Word, we take hold of every word, because every word is life-giving, and it's personal. Even when they're spoken to someone else, or to Israel, or to some particular person, that is maybe the primary thing, but then, underneath are the layers of revelation. Every word is giving us truth and principles for us today. And for me personally and for you personally.

No. 1:

We see that God formed him, and God states this to Jeremiah. He says: “I formed you in the womb. You just didn't happen. You just didn't turn up on the scene. I formed you.”

I wonder, ladies, if any of you got to listen to my series I did on Psalm 139. It was called The Awe and Wonder of Life in the Womb. I did five sessions. Oh, they were amazing! Not because I spoke them, but because I was sharing with you the Hebrew words and what they really meant of how God formed life in the womb. And it's just so amazing. You can go back and listen to those.

No. 2:

God knew him. He says: “Before I formed thee.” Notice, in the Scripture we read the personal pronoun “thee,” or, of course, we would say “you.” So let's read it as though it was in a modern translation. We'll read the word “you,” because God says that word, the personal pronoun, five times in just one little Scripture.

“Before I formed you in the belly (or the womb), I knew you. And before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you, and I ordained you to be a prophet to the nations.” “You,” the personal pronoun. Five times!

God knows every single baby in the womb. God has written a book about every person alive before they were even born! In fact, we see that word “before” in this Scripture. This word comes two times, “Before I formed you,” and, “Before you came out of the womb.”

Before, before there was even any thought of us, God knew about us. God knew our lives. He'd already written the book before He even formed us. Isn't that just so amazing? It makes us realize the power of conception, and the awe, and the wonder, and the power, and the God-coming, and the God-overshadowing, and the God-creating of every life in the womb.

So we see next . . .

No. 3:

“And God sanctified him.” God sets each one apart for His purposes, not when we're older, not when we're an adult and someone comes along and gives a prophetic word, and says, “You are to do this. This is the anointing that is upon your life.”

No, God had it all planned before we were even conceived and before we came out of the womb. And He wrote this book of our whole lives. Imagine the library of Heaven! Oh, it must be filled with books, books, and books, because there is a book on every life! How amazing!

No. 4:

We see God appointed his destiny. “I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” That word “ordained” in the Hebrew means “to give.” God gave Jeremiah as a gift to the nations of Israel and Judah to speak to them God's words.

God gives every life as a gift to the world. In some way, they reveal, they are born in the image of God. Therefore, they are born to reveal something of God, to show something of His image in this world. Of course, only Jesus was the exact Image of the Invisible God. We are made in His image and likeness. We are not the perfect Image, but we are to show something of what He is like through our lives.

Every life we bring into the world is another opportunity to

reveal God in this world!

And this is God's purpose for every life. Every life that we bring into the world is another opportunity to reveal God in this world. The more children that we bring into this world, the more revelation of God in this world! There is no greater thing that we can do. It is just so amazing!

I want to also read to you Psalm 139:16 in the New English Translation. “All the days ordained for me were recorded in Your scroll before one of them came into existence.” Isn't it amazing? How can people, how can a mother, how can anyone abort a living child? A child, who God has already written a book about. A child, who God has recorded in His book, every one of his days? I mean, this is the real person who already has a book written about them! And yet they can go and murder that child in the womb. Isn't this unbelievable?

The Message Translation says: “All the stages of my life were spread out before You. The days of my life, all prepared before I even lived one day.” Oh, how wonderful!

Now let me take you over to Leviticus, well, way back to Leviticus, chapter 15:16. It says here: “If any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water.” Back in Leviticus, God was giving principles for cleanliness and how they were to live. Here the word “sperm,” or “semen,” in the King James Translation is translated “seed of copulation.” That's how the King James translates it.

The Hebrew is the word zerah. Now we have two Hebrew words. There's zerah, which is number 2232 in the Strong's Concordance. Then there's zera, which is 2233 in the Strong's Concordance. They're both similar. They both mean the same thing. They mean, “sperm, semen,” but also “child, posterity, future generations.”

GOD SEES FAR BEYOND WHAT WE SEE

The interesting thing that I want to point out to you here, ladies, is that God sees far beyond how we see. God sees that sperm that contains life. It contains the possibility of future life, if there is conception, because there is life in that sperm. And that is actually the very beginning of life. It's called the “seed of copulation.” We find that God not only uses those Hebrew words, zerah for the sperm, but he also uses the same Hebrew word for a little child, or young person, for a grown-up, for all stages of life.

Now that's interesting, isn't it? You see, that goes beyond our thinking. We think, “The sperm, oh, well, what's a sperm?” But the sperm, once the sperm has conceived, that is already the life of a new person who will grow from a little baby into childhood, into adulthood. It is every stage of that person's life. God actually looks upon that person as a zerah. In the Bible, we see that. I'm going to show you a few Scriptures so you can get it, OK?

Now in Genesis 38;9, it says: “And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground.” Now, I think you know this story of Onan. Because his brother died, the plan back in those days was that the next brother would take that wife to be his, so that he could raise up seed to his brother, so that his name would not be blotted out in Israel.

The name, the family name, was very, very important in Israel. Well, it was very important to God, first, because God was the One Who established this. He said, “I do not want his name to be blotted out. Therefore the next brother is to go into his brother's wife, and to raise up seed to him.” That firstborn would have the name of the brother.

Today, people don't seem to care much about the name dying out, do they? You know, it takes quite a lot of children to keep a family name going. Have you noticed that? Well, I found it in our experience. We had fifteen grandchildren before we ever got a grandson that took on our family name of Campbell! We had other grandsons born, but they have another family name. We had to wait for fifteen grandchildren, to get a Campbell family name.

Even now, we don't actually have, I don't think, enough Campbell grandsons. We have a few, but we have 50 grandchildren. I think we have more that have another last name. But it just shows you how, in today's world, where most families may have one or two children, and then they grow up and maybe they have one or two children. Maybe if they don't even have a son, well, that name is going to die out. It can die out so quickly! So you have to have a few children (perhaps many), to keep the name going.

Anyway, let's get back this Scripture. So the word here is “the seed.” It's that zera. It says this guy, Onan, there's something wrong with this guy, that he didn't want to do what God said. The Living Bible, I think, makes it the more clear. “And every time he went into his wife, his brother's wife, he spilled the seed. And God killed him. God was wroth.”

I think you say “wrath” here in America. We pronounce it “wroth” back in our English tradition. But God was angry with him and killed him. Wow! Wow, I mean, that was pretty powerful. The word here, “that he spilled it on the ground,” it sounds rather not too bad, just spilled it.

But the word in the Hebrew is shakhath, and it literally means, “to destroy, to perish, to utterly waste.” So God saw that seed as destruction. Onan did not want to bring forth life for his brother, and God destroyed him, because he destroyed the seed.

It's the same word in the Hebrew that is used when God talks about destroying the whole earth through the flood because of evil. When He wanted to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. When He said, “Destroy the Amalekites.” Mostly that word is translated “destroy” in the King James Version, although here they used “spilled.” But it's actually, “destroy.'

I think this is something we have to see. There are some people who use what is called “onanism” as birth control. It is not Biblical to use. God is against that.

But let's look at some other Scriptures. Genesis 46:6-7. It's talking about when Joseph was bringing back his father, and all his brothers and their families from Canaan and bringing them down to Egypt where he could look after them because of the famine in the land. It says here, “And they took their cattle, and their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan, and came into Egypt, Jacob and all his seed with him.”

There's that same word, zera. Now, what was Jacob bringing down from Canaan? Was it lots of little seeds floating down? Lots of little sperms floating down from Canaan to Egypt? No! They were people! People! Live people! The next verse goes on to explain: “His sons and his sons' sons with him, his daughters, and his sons' daughters, and all his seed brought he with him into Egypt.”

Three generations coming down. There were grandparents, and there were mothers and fathers, and there were young people, and there were children, and there were little babies. And God called them all zera, the same word He uses for “sperm.” You see, God sees that the sperm grows into a real living person. And that's why we should be very aware of not destroying the sperm. It is precious in the eyes of God.

Psalm 37:25: “I have been young, and now am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed,“ (“nor his children,” most translations would just translate it,) “nor his children begging bread.” You see “children.” It's just the same word for the sperm.

Psalm 112:1-2: “Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord, that delighteth greatly in his commandments. His seed shall be mighty upon the earth.” Well, we understand that that means his children, his descendants will be mighty upon the earth. But it's the same word for “sperm.” Are you getting this? Are you getting to see how God sees?

Psalm 22:30: ”A seed shall serve Him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.” Well, let's read it in another translation. The New Living Translation: “Our children will also serve Him.” Most translations will translate that as, “ a seed shall serve him.” They say, “our descendants,” or “our children.” Here it says: “Our children will also serve him. Future generations will hear about the wonders of the Lord. His righteous acts will be told to those yet born.”

And so once again, we understand that when God uses the word “seed,” or a “sperm,” the word zera, “A zera shall serve him,” we know it's not only talking about sperm. It's talking about real live people, children, future generations. I think maybe that's why that word is used, because it's from the sperm that will come the future generations. That is how we have to understand the sperm. It has the possibility, and it contains the probability of future life, and of future generations,

YOU ARE BUILDING A GODLY DYNASTY

You see, darling ladies, as we're raising our families, we're not only parenting for today. Often that's as far as our brains can think. We're just trying to get through one day! Help me! But try and raise your vision higher because you're not parenting just for today. You are parenting for the future.

You are raising, training, imparting God's ways and principles into children who will, one day, marry and raise children. And their children will raise children. That is why we have to be so intent in our imparting of God's ways and truth, and His Word, and His principles into our children, that they will continue down the generations.

Every godly family should have the vision to build a godly dynasty. You see, this is what we're doing. We're building generations. We're building a dynasty that goes on into the future. Oh, precious ladies! This is why when some folks will say “No, we don't want any more children,” or, “Oh no, we've got our two, or our three, or even our four, we're fine. We've got other things to do in life.”

In fact, some people even say, “Wow, we want to serve the Lord. Therefore, we can't have any more children.” Have you heard people say that? I have. In fact, I have to confess that, way back in the beginning days of starting my family, I felt like that. I didn't understand God's truth back in those days.

I thought, “Wow, if I have too many children, I won't be able to serve the Lord. I just won't have time!” And that had been my vision as a young person, to go out and serve the Lord, and change the world for God. But of course, God had other plans, and I got married, began having children. God had to reveal to me that this was His most perfect will for me and that I was in His absolute will.

You see, we've got to see the power of what we are doing. Raising godly seed, godly zerah, godly children, a godly dynasty. And when we, maybe for some reason, say, “Well, no, I don't want any more,” we're not saying “no” to one baby. We are saying “no” to a dynasty.

Because when we stop one child, we stop future generations, because that child who we stopped will not be here to have more children. And their children will not be here to have more children. It is unbelievable, the power of what happens when we stop the godly generations.

And then, of course, the glory and the power of when we embrace God's plan, and bring forth children, who will not only be here just for us to enjoy, but who will bring forth further and more godly generations. Amen? Are you getting the picture?

LEVI WAS IN ABRAHAM’S LOINS FOUR GENERATIONS BEFORE HE WAS BORN

Well, let's go over to the New Testament, shall we? We've been in the Old. Let's go over to Hebrews 7:9-10. Here it says: “And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchisedec met him.” Well, what's all that about, ladies?

Do you remember the story when Abraham was coming back from war? His nephew, Lot, had been taken by these enemies. I think there were about four different companies of enemies that had taken all those of Sodom and Gomorrah. And Lot was taken. A messenger came to Abraham and said, “Your nephew has been taken. Everybody's been taken from these towns.”

So, OK, Abraham said, “Let's get going!” He rounded up his army. Did you know that Abraham had an army? And, did you know, it was the members of his own household? I'm thinking he had 318 (Genesis 14:14). I think that was it. I forgot to check the number, but Abraham had about 318 warriors in his own household, trained warriors, because they did live in a land where there were enemies around. Therefore, he had to have trained warriors.

They went out, Abraham with them, leading them, and they went out, and by God's power and ability, they were able to defeat those enemies. Abraham was able to retrieve his nephew, and his wife, and all the family, and all his belongings, and bring them back. Also all of those of Sodom and Gomorrah. So he was coming back and Melchisedec met him,

Melchisedec was, at that time, king of Salem, which became Jerusalem. He was a type of the priesthood to come of which Jesus would be of the Melchisedec priesthood. Abraham must have had a revelation to know who he was. We don't really quite know who he was, because, as the Bible describes him, he was without years. No one knew when he was born or whatever. So he was a type of the eternal priesthood. And Abraham gave him tithes.(Read Genesis 14:17-20 and Hebrews 7:1-28 ).

Now the interesting part about our Scripture here is that, and this blows my mind. I wonder if it will blow your mind. Did you hear what I read? That Levi also gave tithes to Melchisedec. But Levi wasn't born! Levi wasn't a twinkle in Abraham's eye! Levi eventually was Abraham's great-grandson. But God says, the Word of God says, that Levi also paid tithes to Melchisedec while he was yet in the loins of his great-grandfather, Abraham.

You see, ladies, God saw Levi before anyone had ever dreamed or thought of him. But God saw him. God knew him. God had already written a book about his life. God had already planned the Levitical priesthood that would come through the tribe of Levi. But Levi was already in Abraham's loins!

You see, there are children in our loins that God has planned to come. Wow, that gets pretty scary when we think we can stop what God wants to come forth. Imagine, imagine, if Abraham had lived in our day, and Levi had been stopped from coming forth. God already had him ready to come forth, ready in the loins of Abraham. Isn't that amazing?

Well, time is going, but I just want to share something else to you from the New Testament. OK, now just look at a Greek word, brephos. Now this word means a baby that is unborn, or a new little baby, or even an older infant. Let me give you some Scriptures.

Luke 1:41-44. You can read the story: “When Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe (brephos) leaped in her womb, and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.” Now, that word is talking about an unborn child. Unborn child, who was leaping in the womb.

And then we read over in Luke 2:12: “Ye shall find the babe, (brephos) in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.” Here's a little baby, just born, same word is used.

And then we read in Luke 18:15: “And they brought to Jesus infants (brephos) that He would touch them and heal them.” Here, it's talking about older children, but they all have the same word, brephos. God sees the babe in the womb as powerfully as when that child is born, or even older.

SOZO – SAVED, HEALED, DELIVERED, PROTECTED, PRESERVED, AND MADE WHOLE

Now let's go to another word. Oh, I've got to get this into you here. 1 Timothy 2:15: “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.” Let me give it to you from the New American Standard Bible: “The women will be preserved through the bearing of children, if they continue in faith, and love, and sanctity, and self-restraint.”

Don't you love that word, “preserved?” Oh, I know every one of us, we all want to preserve our lives. Oh, say it with me, “PRESERVED.” Don't you love it? Oh yes, we want to be preserved. Such a beautiful word.

And God says that we will be preserved through the bearing of children because this is the way he created us. This is what He destined us for. This is how we are made, with breasts and womb, to bring forth children and nurture children! And as we do this, our body will be preserved, and our soul and our spirit, our whole being, will be preserved.

Now the word in the Greek is sozo. It's spelled s-o-z-o, but you have to pronounce it sode’-zo. It's an amazing word. When we read it in the King James Version, it's usually translated “saved.” But oh, it means so much more!

Let's get it. This word means “to save, deliver, protect, heal, cure, preserve, keep safe, and make whole.” Dear ladies, you don't get told this in the world. You get told everything that is opposite. But God's Word says that when you embrace childbearing, child rearing, you will be saved, delivered, protected, preserved, healed, and made whole. Now you can't beat that! And that is the Word of the Lord. You can take hold of that. You can take that promise because it is God's living Word.

Now let me show you some Scriptures where that same word is used. The same word that says that we will be saved, and preserved, and healed, and delivered in childbearing, is the same word that is used when Jesus healed people.

Here's just a few examples. Matthew 9:20-22: “Jesus said, 'Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made (sozo) thee whole (sozo).’” Two times in one verse. When He says, “You're going to be made whole,” well, that's what it means. Made whole. We are made whole through salvation. We are made whole when God comes and heals us of our infirmities. We are made whole through the bearing and raising of children because it's God's perfect plan for us.

When Jesus raised Jairus' daughter from the dead, maybe I'll give you these references in my transcript to save time. Luke 8:50: “Jesus said, 'Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole (sozo).'” Sozo. That's being raised from the dead! And that same word is used!

That's the word that is used about you, dear mother, that you will be preserved in embracing the lifestyle of bearing and raising children.

What about blind Bartimaeus? Mark 10:46-52: “Jesus said unto him, 'Go thy way, thy faith hath made (sozo) thee whole (sozo).'”

Healing the demonic. Mark 5:16: “They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devil was healed (sozo).”

When Jesus healed the ten lepers, Luke 17:19: “And He said unto them, 'Arise, go thy way. Thy faith hath made (sozo) thee whole (sozo).'”

In Mark 6:56: “Jesus went around the villages, and the cities, and the country, and they brought the sick in the streets, that he would just touch them.” Just touch the border of His garment. “And as many as touched him were made whole (sozo).”

You see, lovely ladies, we are checking to see if we are living by what God says or what our humanistic society says. God says, as we embrace motherhood, we will be made whole. Isn't that wonderful?

Oh, I remember reading a commentator on this subject of sozo. This man said, “As I began to understand the fullness of the word sozo, every time I would come across that word “saved” in the King James Bible, I would repeat the full understanding of that word.”

For example, Romans 10:13 says: “Whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved (sozo).” So he would read it: “For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved, delivered, protected, healed, preserved, kept safe, and made whole.” Isn't that amazing? And, precious ladies, this word relates to us as mothers. Amen?

I've gone beyond my time, and dear ladies, I haven't even hardly started of all the Scriptures that there are! Oh, I'm so sorry, my book Be Fruitful and Multiply is out of print. I hope to get it back in print. But you can find it on Amazon. You know, back copies that they have on Amazon.

Also I would encourage you to go to my web page, aboverubies.org, and look up the article, “Preserved Through Motherhood.” You will love it. I'm not so much speaking about the Scriptures there, but scientifically, the blessings that happen to us when we embrace motherhood. So be encouraged. Be blessed.

“Dear Father, I thank You for each one listening today. I pray that You will pour out your blessings, with an “s” on it, all over them. Lord God, I pray that You will give them revelation of Your truth, and the understanding of Your Word and Your heart, and that, Lord, You will help us to live by Your living Word and not by all the deception that is around us.

“We thank You that You are the Giver of Life. You love life and You have created us to be life-givers. This is who we are, Lord. We thank You that right at the beginning, Eve was named “life-giver.” She was the prototype of all women to come. And this is the anointing you have put upon us. Help us to embrace it and be life-givers to the world and to the generations to come. In the Name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, Amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris

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FROM OUR HOME TO YOURS w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 148 –  WHAT DOES GOD SAY ABOUT HAVING CHILDREN? Part 2

Find out how God loves to bless us? Of course, you love your children, but do you love motherhood? Check out the difference.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, From Our Home to Yours, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello again, ladies! Well, I wonder if you were able to write a letter to Aldi's about that terrible transgender sign in their new shops. I hope you have. If you didn't, I know life is busy, and I give you a gentle reminder to please write. I think it is so important. We cannot just go and look at a sign like that, and think, “Oh, well,” and just carry on. Because it is totally, totally against everything of how God created us.

I will post the picture again at the end of this transcript to remind you.

In fact, I was thinking, it's quite interesting, I've never thought of this before. I see these signs all the time when it has a male bathroom, and it's got the picture of the lady with the skirt, sorry, with the pants! And then the female bathroom, the picture of the lady with the skirt. Man with the pants, lady with the skirt. I'd better get it right!

OK, isn't it interesting? I was thinking how they show the picture for the female with the skirt. And yet, today, hardly anyone wears a skirt! Isn't that amazing? And yet, that is still the picture that society shows to show which bathroom it is. Because sometimes there are foreign people, and they don't understand the writing. But they can see the picture.

The picture is that a woman is really revealed by a skirt. Interesting. Not so much these days, although I think it is so much more feminine. I'm  not saying you can't wear pants. I'm not saying that. But I think I should say, I think it is correct to say that it is more feminine. We do look more like women when we wear a skirt. It is so interesting that that is the sign, and it's all over the world. Amazing, isn't it, and yet how we are turning away, even from that.

All right, I said that I would share a few more Scriptures with you about the blessing of children. Well, what God thinks about children, because we've got to work out, who are we really listening to? Are we listening to God, or do we go by what society says?

I told you last time, well, I didn't tell you, sorry. I read the Scripture of how the very first thing that God did when He created male and female was to bless them. Bless them. To bless them with the anointing of fruitfulness.

Now, that wasn't a one-time thing. After the flood, God reiterated that blessing. In fact, this time, He didn't say it once like He did at the beginning. This time He said it two times. In Genesis chapter nine, verse one, it says: “And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth.” And He said it in verse one and verse seven. Twice. He wanted to make sure they got the blessing, and that they knew what the blessing was.

Go to Genesis 17:15-17: “And God said unto Abraham, 'As for Sarai thy wife,” she wasn't Sarah yet, “thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her.'” Twice He gives the blessing. Twice. Interesting.

I don't think that God wastes words. And when He comes to the woman . . . When He speaks to the man, He says it once. When He speaks to the woman, He says it twice. He gives the double blessing, because she is the one . . . although the man and the woman are going to receive the blessing, she is the one who conceives and grows this baby in her womb. And so the blessing is given to her two times.

We go to Genesis 22. And talking to Abraham again: “In blessing I will bless thee, and I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore . . . And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed My voice.”

Speaking of Rebekah: Genesis 24:60 “And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, be thou the mother of thousands of millions.” Whoo, can you imagine it? Can you imagine the minister giving you that blessing on your wedding day? Wow! I'm not sure many married couples would be ready for that. But that was the blessing that they gave over Rebekah. “Be thou the mother of thousands of millions.” And that prophetic word came to pass.

In your mothering, ladies, do you think of the future? You see, it's not just today. We do not mother just for today. We do not have children just for today. It is ongoing. It is for the future. And the interesting thing is, ladies, that when we decide that we are going to say “no” to a baby . . . “Oh dear. I don't think we've got . . . It's just not working out at this time. Oh, we haven't got enough finance. Help! No, we can't do it.” And we say “no.”

When we say “no” to a baby, we don't say “no” to just one baby. We say “no” to a dynasty, because if we do conceive (and we can't make ourselves conceive, it is only the hand of God), if God gives conception, and a little baby comes forth, that baby invariably, unless something happens, will marry and have children.

BUILDING GODLY GENERATIONS

Their children will have children, and their children will have children. It is ongoing, down the generations. The greatest thing that we are doing as a married couple is building godly generations, is establishing a godly dynasty to go down the generations. It is important to think generationally as we are mothering, that we even pray generationally, that we don't pray only for our children now, but for their children, and their children and their children. We pray for the generations to come.

My husband, he shares the testimony of how he is blessed through the prayers of his great-grandmother. She was a great intercessor. He didn't really ever know her, but she did live in their home when he was a little baby. He said his mother said she was continually praying. She was in her 90's at that time.

She would sit in her rocking chair in the corner and be quietly praying. She'd be praying for people, praying for the family. People might even hear their name mentioned. But she didn't know because she was blind. And then it would be bedtime, and she'd go to bed, and she'd still be praying. And then they would hear her say, “Lord, let thy servant go to sleep now.”

But his mother, my husband's mother also said, she didn't just pray for the family, and people around her, but she prayed something quite significant. And what was it? She prayed for the coming generations, even a powerful prayer. And so, as she did, these prayers came to pass.

My husband is one of nine children, and all the family are all working for the Lord. Many of them are in full-time work for the Lord, pastors, and evangelists. They know it's a result of this great-grandmother's prayers who prayed for the coming generations.

So it's not just the children we have now. It's who will come from them. That's an exciting and amazing thing, isn't it? I'm already up to the fourth generation in my lifetime (see below to see that I am really in the sixth generation)! Because we had, my husband and myself, first generation, or I should go back, really, to my . . . and then my grandparents on both our sides. We had godly grandparents, so let's go back to that.

My godly grandparents, OK, we'll take that as the first generation that I have known in my lifetime. My parents, second generation. Colin and me, third generation. Our children, fourth generation. Their children, fifth generation. And now I'm still living and my grandchildren are now having children. I have at least twenty great-grandchildren now (fifty grandchildren, 20 great-grandchildren so far). Of course, there will be many, many more of them to come. Praise the Lord!

Isn't it amazing? In my lifetime, from my grandparents, who I knew, it is now the sixth generation in my lifetime, still walking in the ways of the Lord! I guess I will be gone if the Lord doesn't come before that, for the seventh generation, well, unless something miraculous happens and I live to 120, haha! But at least I'm seeing the sixth.

But I am praying that even beyond what I won't see, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth generation, they will still be walking in the ways of the Lord! It makes me think of the Scripture, oh, it just blessed me many years ago. Let me go to it. I think it's in Zephaniah.

Zephaniah chapter one. Yes. “The Word of the Lord which came unto Zephaniah, the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah.” OK. Well, what did I get out of that? Help! Well, and sometimes it could be even other generations in between. Sometimes they missed some out.

But here, yes, it's talking about the son of Hezekiah. It's “Hizkiah” in my King James Bible, but it's Hezekiah. So here is Hezekiah, one of the good kings of Judah, praise the Lord. “He did that which was right, and that which was good in the eyes of the Lord.” So we go back from Zephaniah, to his father, to his grandfather, to his great-grandfather, and then great-great-grandfather, all in one verse.

And I thought, “Wow! This is powerful! This is Zephaniah now and he is a prophet to the nations. He came from Hezekiah, who was a good king, but now, down the line, he is still walking in the ways of the Lord, and a prophet to the nations.” And I said, “Oh, God, thank You, Lord! This is my prayer, that my children will still be serving You and following after You with all their heart, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth generation, and beyond!” Is that your prayer too?

BLESSING THE WORLD WITH GODLY OFFSPRING

Well, anyway, that's the vision that we are meant to have about having children. Blessing the world with the godly seed! Yes, because every child that comes into this world comes with the Image of God. As we train them and prepare them and teach them in the ways of God, they can go out into this world to shine for Him to reveal His love, and truth, and mercy, and justice in the world. We're bringing God into the world.

But when we stop, when we say “no” to a baby, we don't only say “no” to one baby, but to a whole dynasty! Think of how many generations are missing out on the blessing of God because we say “no”! Isn't it unbelievable?

OK. Yes, Genesis 28:3 speaking to Jacob, “God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people.” Do you notice that every time these words are spoken, it's first said, “God Almighty bless thee”? “BLESS THEE.”. You see, fruitfulness is the blessing of God. We either want to live and walk in the blessing of God, or not! Which do we want to do?

WALKING WITH GOD AND HAVING CHILDREN

I'm just thinking now of Enoch. Let me see if I can find where it talks about Enoch. Enoch, where was he? Oh yes, in chapter five of Genesis, Genesis 5:21: “And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah.” We know Methuselah lived for 969 years.

And then it goes on to say: “And Enoch walked with God.” He was a man who walked with God. But he did something else:“ After he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”

So, after he begat Methuselah, it says that “Enoch walked with God,” but he didn't just walk with God, what else did he do? He “begat sons and daughters”! And he was walking with God! And he had such a glorious walk with God that God just took him.

But you see, that is a wonderful encouragement. Sometimes, dear darling ladies, you think, “Well, what am I doing in life? I'm just having these children and all my life is taken up with looking after these children! What am I doing for God?”

I know how you feel. I felt like that when I first started having my children. At that time in my life, I didn't have a clue or understand anything about motherhood! I was just catapulted into it! I had our first baby, and then, seventeen months later, we had our not just our second baby, but our second and third babies! We had twins! We had them unexpectedly. Didn't know I was having them until I was giving birth! I actually gave birth on my due date, having twins, and they were 7 lbs. 5 oz. and 6  lbs. 13 oz. so they weren't wee little preemie babies. They were big babies!

But I didn't know I was having them. That was back in the days when there were no ultrasounds. In fact, when the midwife was checking me in the hospital with the old doppler and listening with it on my womb, and listening in her ear, she said, “That's strange, I can hear another heartbeat! Oh, just could be an echo. We'll wait and see.”

So, we waited to see! Evangeline was born, and then she felt my tummy. “Oh yes, there's still another one there!” So about five minutes later, Stephen was born. And that was the biggest surprise of our lives!

So in those days I suddenly had three little children in 17 months! We'd just come back from the mission field. We were living out of suitcases. I was just overwhelmed. I hardly knew what I was doing. I just couldn't believe it!

Colin and I had gone out full time for the Lord when he was engaged. We had been in the mission field. We were out to change the world, and here I was, stuck in four walls with three screaming babies, with not knowing what I was doing. No help. We'd just got home from the Philippine Islands. Didn't know anyone, and I wondered what was happening to my life. I thought I was finished. I thought, “That's the end of my Christian life! Goodness me, can't serve God, just stuck with these babies!”

But I cried out to God, “Lord God, what am I doing? Help me, Lord God!” And He began to show me, because I was crying out to Him, little by little, He showed me I was in His perfect will. Wow! I thought I was meant to be out saving the world! He showed me that this is who He had created me to be. Oh wow! I'd never thought of that before. I always wanted to be out doing the adventurous man-things, not stuck in a home with babies!

But He showed me, He began to reveal to me, that I was created with breasts, with a womb. This is who I was. Wow! And gradually, I came to it. Gradually, I began to embrace it. And as I began to get the revelation of truth into my heart, into my soul, and embrace it, it was the first time in my life I'd ever embraced who I was as a female, as a woman, as a mother. As I did it, I began to have peace.

Instead I was in turmoil, frustration! “I'm meant to be out serving God! I'm meant to be doing this! I'm meant to be doing that! I can't waste my life stuck in these walls!” But God showed me I was doing the most powerful thing that I could ever do in my whole life. I was bringing forth children to affect this world for God. Bringing forth children, not only for this world, not only to bring forth generations, but for eternity! I was fulfilling an eternal calling!

And so, I just came into, began to . . . instead of being frustrated, to love motherhood. Because there's a huge difference, dear ladies, between loving your children, and loving motherhood. I loved my precious children. Oh, yes, I was just a gonner. I loved them. You love your children. But do you love motherhood? Big difference. I used the word “gonner” meaning “I was over the top in love with my baby).

We have to come to that place of not only loving our children, but loving motherhood. Embracing motherhood, because this is who we are, and who God created us to be. It's the greatest purpose He's given us in this world! And it's such a powerful purpose! As I said, there's not one thing going to happen in this world without the womb, without our bringing children into this world, to accomplish the things that God has for them.

And so, what Scripture were we up to when I got on to all that? Haha. Oh, yes. It was Jacob, how God was blessing him.

Then we go on to Leah, Genesis 30:13: “Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed. And she called his name Asher,” which means “blessed.”

Let's go on here. Isaac, now Genesis 49, no this is Joseph. Yes, we read that one. “The blessings of the breasts and of the womb.”

Let's go to Deuteronomy 1:10, 11. I'm not giving you every one. We'd be here all day! I'm just giving you a few to show you that it just lines up. Every time God says: “And God blessed them,” then  He says: “Be fruitful and multiply.” Deuteronomy 1:10, 11: “The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude. (The Lord God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as you are, and bless you, as He hath promised you!)”

Deuteronomy 7. Oh, I love this passage! Deuteronomy 7, verse 12: “Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the Lord thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which He sware unto thy fathers.” The word “mercy” there in the Hebrew is chesed, a glorious, glorious word, meaning “God's love, and His commitment in His covenant to his people.”

Verse 13: “And He will love thee and bless thee.” And how does He love us, and bless us? The next phrase: “and multiply thee.” You get it? Every time it says, “I will bless you,” then it talks about fruitfulness and multiplying. “He will also bless the fruit of  thy womb, and the fruit of thy ground, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which the Lord gave you.”

Now this is an interesting one, ladies. So many think, “Oh, no, I can't have another baby, because help! We're in such financial stress! How could we ever afford another baby?” Well, lovely ladies, God doesn't ever give you all the finance you need for another baby before you have that baby! No! You don't need it now. You haven't got another baby.

But when He brings another baby to you, then He provides. Did you notice it? What does it say? “I will love you and bless you and multiply you. I will bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your land. Your corn, your wine, your cattle, your sheep.” You see that blessing comes after the blessing of the womb. And when He blesses us from the womb, then He blesses us to provide for that child.

We see that again in Deuteronomy 28:3, 4: “Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of thy womb,” and then it goes to say: “and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store. Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.” Those blessings come after the blessings of the fruit of the womb.

Sometimes we do it all the wrong way round. We think, “Oh, well, we've got to get a house, we've got to get our house paid for, we've got to get this, we've got to get that, we've got to have everything. Then we can have a baby.” Or “Then we can maybe have another baby.”

But no, God's way is, “Let Me bless you.” It's God Who blesses us as we trust God with our womb. It's not just me to say, “We're going to have another baby.” It's God's doing. Sometimes a baby doesn't come straightaway. Sometimes it does. It belongs to our Sovereign God. But when this baby comes, then He has given us the promise, “And I will bless your ground, and your cattle, and your store, and your basket. And I will provide for the needs of that baby!”

Oh ladies, just get it! God has shown it all to us. Isn't it wonderful? Yes! So let's give you one or two more. Oh yes, go over to Deuteronomy 13. We start off this passage in verse 12. And it's very negative at the beginning, It's talking about how, if you hear about some folks in a city, or a town, and they are following after other gods, well, you'd better check it out. And you've got to find out if it be the truth.

It says here, verse 14, you've got to ask diligently, “and, behold, if it be the truth, and the thing certain, that such an abomination is wrought among you,” you will then, you've got to go and smite those inhabitants of the city “with the edge of the sword,” and destroy them utterly.

So they had to get rid of the evil, and those who were following after other gods, because otherwise, it would be like leaven. It would filter right through all the tribes of Israel, and they'd all begin to start following after other gods, which they did so many times. Of course, if they had put this into practice, it would have been stopped. So God is speaking to them here about arresting that evil.

But then it carries on, and it goes down, and we get to verse 17. It says that if they do that, “And there shall cleave nought,” nothing, “of the cursed thing to your hand,” and if you will do this, and you will destroy those who are following after other gods, “Then the Lord may turn from the fierceness of His anger and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee.”

Oh, two beautiful words! Actually ladies, they're both the same Hebrew word! And yet they use two different English words. They are the Hebrew word racham. “And show thee mercy.” What is that Hebrew word racham? It is the word “womb.” It actually means to, really, how would I put it? To be soft, to be compassionate, to love this baby in the womb. It literally means “compassion” and “mercy.” Those are the two words that are mentioned here, mercy and compassion.

And that's what the word “womb” means. You see, ladies, we are not only physical, but transcendental. Our breasts are physical, but we not only have physical breasts. God has put within us, as females, an innate nurturing anointing.

And then we have the womb, which is physical, to nourish a child in the womb, but it's also spiritual, too, in that this word “womb” speaks of God. It's  interchangeable. This word racham is interchangeable. Sometimes, it speaks of the womb of a woman. Other times, it speaks of God's love, and mercy, and compassion. And we see it here.

“I will show you mercy and compassion. I will show you My wombness. I will show you racham and racham.” Not just once, it's mentioned twice. And then after that, it says: “And I will multiply you.” You see His blessing of mercy and compassion, then after that comes the multiplying.

Before being fruitful and multiplying, it is always the blessing of God: “I will bless you. I will love you. I will show you mercy. I will show you compassion.” It's so amazing, how that word is interchangeable.

When we embrace our womb, and a little baby is growing in the womb, there is a great anointing of compassion and mercy that comes over us, because we are revealing the mercy and compassion of God. This is the most amazing thing, precious ladies.

When we embrace who we are, and when we embrace the womb, we're showing something of God to the world. When we nurse a baby at our breast, and we show that love, and tender care, and protection to our little one, we're showing what God's love, and nurturing, and nourishing, and protection is like. We're a picture of God. Of course, it's not a full picture. It's like a shadow, but we're just showing something of what He is like.

So, OK, time's going. Let me just give you a couple more Scriptures of blessing. Let's go to Deuteronomy 28:63: “The Lord rejoiced over you, to do you good.” And how is He going to do them good? “To multiply you.”

Deuteronomy 30:5: “He will do thee good, and multiply thee.” Yes, and so it goes on, and on, and on. So many Scriptures. God blesses, then He gives us the blessing of conception and fruitfulness. This is Bible language, ladies. Let's get the Bible language, OK?

Let's pray.

“Dear Father, we just thank You so much for Your Word, and for showing us the way You feel, the way You think, the way You have planned for our lives. Help us, Lord, to be on Your side, and not the devil's side. Oh, God, help us to be women who embrace who You created us to be. We ask it in the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris

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