PODCAST TRANSCRIPT | EPISODE 319: Keeping Your Children’s Hearts
LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell
EPISODE 319
: Keeping Your Children’s Hearts
Allison Hartman from Pensacola shares today about keeping your children's hearts. Do you have your children's hearts? What about your older children? Tune in to hear these powerful pointers on how to keep your children's hearts throughout all seasons.
Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.
Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies! I still have Allison with me, so we’re going to take the opportunity to do one more podcast together. All the children are playing downstairs so they’ll just wait a bit longer for lunch. A subject that is very close to Allison’s heart is how to keep your children’s hearts. So, Allison, let’s hear from you!
Allison: You know, I’m so thankful that I’m able to raise my children with many different age groups. I have littles all the way from four to married, age 25.
Nancy: Three children married now, two of them married to two of my grandsons.
Allison: Yes, we’ve got sisters who married brothers. One of the benefits, I think, of having a larger family is that you’re able to see what to look forward to. As parents, as you’ve heard me speak before, I think it’s very important to think about what is our goal, what is our purpose as mothers? My goal, and hopefully it’s yours as well, is to raise adults, raise godly mamas and daddies. That’s our end goal. Therefore, everything we do has got to lead up to that.
A couple of weeks ago, I had a friend reach out and private message me. She said, “Can I have some godly mother counsel?” She had shared with me about her child before. This child was extremely disobedient, extremely naughty, and just not controllable. She had them in child daycare. They were kicked out of kindergarten. Until K-3, they were asked to leave. They were having a really tough time with her.
Instead of just answering her, I went to our Above Rubies family group. The greatest thing about our family camp that we put on is that we have a continuing chat on Signal. It’s so wonderful because you’ve got 100 families at your disposal to ask advice from. I think it’s important to glean from each other.
So, I asked our group, “What would you say to this mom who’s struggling with the disobedience thing?” Obviously, my first response would be, “You’ve got to stay home with your child.”
Nancy: Yes, that’s what I would say. When you were telling about it, that’s the first thing, “Well, she’d better come home!”
Allison: She shared that that’s not an option right now. You’ve got to meet people where they’re at so I was trying to answer her appropriately. Yes, my first and foremost would be, “You’ve got to be at home.”
But then, when I started asking other people their thoughts, my answer to her was this. I said, “First of all, I think it’s important for us to realize that we’re all a sum total of our experiences. The way we parent is so much the way we were parented, unless we’re careful. When I’m parenting, so much of what I do as a mother is what I’ve seen. But just because we’ve seen it doesn’t make it right.”
I shared with her that if you’ve only seen discipline done in anger, then you’re typically going to do that. But we shouldn’t. Also, the statement, “Rules without relationship lead to rebellion.” When we’re parenting with rules only, we’re only going to get, typically, rebellion. Or children who, we don’t have their hearts.
A couple of years ago, our local news did an article on our family. They asked me, “Why do you homeschool?” My answer to them was . . . was it because I’m a really good teacher? Or I can really make sure that they’re learning the subjects I want them to learn. But my answer to the news station was because I want my children’s heart. I want, not when they’re just little and four, to obey immediately. I want when they’re 25 and they’re 18, and they’re 17, and they’re 15, I want to have their hearts.
So then, I shared this with this mom. Her response was, “What does that mean?” I was kind of amazed. I didn’t realize everybody doesn’t know what that means. It brought me to our group again, our family camp again. I said, “What does that mean to us, guys? What does it mean to have our children’s hearts?”
I think when they’re little, personally, I think it’s easy to have your children’s hearts. They want to be with Mama. My little boy just got hurt a second ago. What did he do? He immediately came to me because he knows I’m going to make sure he’s going to be OK. But when they’re older, and they have peers, it’s very often that we lose their hearts, because they have others that they can go to. So, how do we do that? How do we keep their hearts?
Just a few thoughts on that. I think you can’t have your children’s hearts unless you spend time with them. We have our husbands’ hearts because we spend time with them, right? We are their best friend. Well, we have to do the same with our children.
So many mothers will say, “I’m not your friend! I’m your mother!” Can we do both? I think we can. I am now to a point where if I really stop and think about who my best friends are, I would say my best friends are my older girls because I spent time with them. They trust my answers. I love being with them. And I think I’ve proved that over my life with them, because I chose to spend time with them. We talked about family-integrated churches. I chose not to put my children in children’s church and Sunday school and youth group. I chose to spend time with them. Therefore, I have their hearts.
One suggestion I would have to a mother listening today who says, “I don’t understand, I don’t know how to do this,” well, one of the best things I’ve done is glean from other mamas. One way I’ve become a better wife is by watching you be a good wife. So, if you don’t have a good community around you, a good church group, come to our family camp, because you’ll see a hundred different families, and trust me, a lot of them are doing it way better than I am. But the reason I keep coming back is, I’m learning from other mamas who are doing it well. That’s just one encouragement.
But to have our children’s hearts, I think it means we have to, number one, invest time into them. Spending time as a family. Doing things as a family. Not pawning them off to other families and letting them go spend the night or letting them be involved in sports. My children know that I am their greatest cheerleader and we’re a huge sports family. Whether it’s volleyball, and now it’s fight ball as the new sport. Whatever my children are into, I am their number one cheerleader.
So now, there’s that trust. They know that I’m going to cheer for them, but I’m also going to fight for them. They also know I’m probably also one of the hardest moms around. My children’s friends know, “Ooh, Mrs. Hartman, she scares me!” Well, it’s because I don’t let anything go. I’m not an easy mama. I think we have to be careful not to think that to have our children’s hearts, we have to give into them.
Nancy: That’s right.
Allison: We don’t! You can have your children’s hearts by being a tough mama. I don’t let anything go. We don’t watch TV. We don’t play video games. We don’t hang out with families that I don’t want my children to align with. You don’t have to give in by saying, “I want to be the nice mom because I want to have their hearts.”
You can actually do just as good of a job of keeping their hearts by being that tough mom, but you can’t just be rules, rules, rules. You have to have a relationship. I think those things are really important. We have found that being in a family-integrated church is such a great way to allow this.
I would answer that mama that asked me a question, and maybe you are listening, “How do I have my children’s hearts?” I think you have to invest time in them. You have to not just give quick answers. “I said no. Don’t do it because I said no.” “Don’t do it, but let me sit with you and explain to you the why behind why I’m saying no. Instead, let’s go do something together.” “No, I don’t want you to hang out with that friend, but I’m not going to just say no. I’m going to explain why.”
I’m not going to say, “No, you can’t wear that shirt that shows your belly because I said not to. I’m going to explain to you that the reason I don’t want you to wear that shirt that shows your belly is because you’re a beautiful lady. Boys will be immediately noticing your belly. I want them to notice your face. I want them to see your heart.” I’m going to explain to them that I’m not just being mean. I’m not just being the mean mom. “I want you to be the most beautiful modest-dressed lady out there.”
Again, it takes time. You’ve got to spend time with them. You’ve got to be surrounded by like-minded families who are doing the same. If you don’t have that, then you’ve got to create it. We didn’t have it, so therefore we created it by starting our family camp. Maybe sometime I’ll be able to plug in the dates for the family camp.
Nancy: Oh yes, you do that.
Allison: I am so honored that we now have all three of our married children coming to our church. That is super unusual nowadays but not just coming to our fellowship church. They desire to spend time with us. I really think it’s because when they were younger, we desired to spend time with them.
We prioritized everything, whether it’s a business venture. Whenever my children are into business, I am all in. My son just injured his leg, so of course I’m taking him to doctor’s appointments. But not only that, I was helping him think, what can we do with this time, now that you can’t walk on your foot for the whole summer. So, he got into selling honey. It wasn’t just, “Sure, that sounds like a great idea. You go do that. I’ll go do my thing.” No, “I’m going to be there. I’m going to get this started with you. I’m going to set you up for success.”
Nancy: I just noticed yesterday . . . what mother could do this to an 18-year-old son? We were going off to the luncheon, and you said to Ethan, “Well, OK, if you don’t want to come, you can stay home and clean the house.” What mother says that to an 18-year-old boy? He’s not some sissy boy. He’s handsome, he’s muscular, he’s sporty, he’s cool. He said, “OK, I’ll do that.” I simply cannot believe that.
As I walked in yesterday afternoon, there was something about my house that I couldn’t believe. It looked as though a professional cleaner had come in and I’d paid out all this money. He spent the whole day cleaning this huge home, upstairs and downstairs. It was the greatest thing he could do! It was just amazing! You don’t get 18-year-old boys doing that just because their mother said, “OK, you can do that.” It was so incredible!
Allison: I’m not sure how we really got to that point, other than I just look back, and everything we did, we did together. I don’t ever clean my house as one person. I will wait until everyone’s here, because our family is a team. When you're on a sports team, you can’t play volleyball with one person. You have to have your team, and you're all good at different things.
I’m a real big believer in, when you find out what their strengths are, you really go for it. You praise them, and then you give them big, big jobs, and you expect big, big things.
We also believe in working six days a week. The Bible does not say to work five days a week, and then take a weekend off. It says six days a week. That’s why today is Saturday, and my husband is out there with a whole crew of boys, working. We raise our children to be workers, even if it’s just cleaning the house. But he loves to serve, and that’s his way of showing you that he appreciates you.
Nancy: Yes, yes. And then your boys are used to this. Your girls are married now, so now it’s teenage boys. “Can I get you a cup of coffee? What kind would you like?” because they’ve got the coffee machine, which you always bring with you. [laughter]
Allison: Right. We always have to have a good coffee machine!
Nancy: Ethan made one for me yesterday and he had written on it because he knows how to do it. It had an “N” on it. My sister Kate, he made one for her, and she couldn’t believe it. It had a “K” on it for her! She was so blessed.
Allison: Aww. Well, with our family’s church that we do in our home, that has become his little ministry. These families will come to our church, and it’s a little intimidating to come to someone’s house that you don’t even know. But there’s nothing like a good cup of coffee that will break the ice.
Ethan is really a blessing. He’ll see a mama, especially a young mama that has lots of little children. He will look at her and say, “Can I get you a coffee?” And she’ll say, “Well, yes!” Then he’ll say, “Iced or hot?” She’ll say, “Um, iced.” “Well, would you like honey, or would you like stevia, or would you like whole milk, or would you like half-and-half?” It’s like going to a coffee shop. He really does love to bless people. We’re super thankful.
So, yeah, I will mention our family camp really quick. Probably like most of you out there, we truly could not find a solid group of families that we could do life with, and we could see in their children the things we wanted to be a part of our family. I started doing ladies’ retreats with you 20 years ago. Then we moved quickly into family camps.
A YEAR LONG + COMMUNITY
The benefits of it are so beyond, not that the teaching’s not amazing, because of course it is. We love Mr. Colin speaking to the families and the men. And you, of course, speaking to the ladies. But most of the time, the retreat will end when the retreat ends. Then we’ll pick up when we come back next year. Our retreats have turned into a complete year-long community.
Nancy: Well, they started out as just weekend family retreats, like we do all our family retreats. But it wasn’t enough, and now they are a weeklong. Three times a year, a weeklong!
Allison: That’s right. That’s right. But even not only that, but we will continue to have our Signal group, so you’ve got somebody to pass news to. Pete Pierson’s son fell off a bunk bed and had to be airlifted. He hurt his kidney. Immediately he was able to put it out on Signal to our Above Rubies family and they started praying for him. Not only did they pray for him, but people would send meals, or send gift packages, or just let him know that we love him.
For a lot of us, that is our church. That is our family. But yes, we do it three times a year. The next time we’re meeting is actually in August. That’s our family reunion, we call it. We normally just have families that have come to the retreat before, or at least they’re friends with someone who has come. That will be in August.
And then we actually started doing a winter retreat, which is really neat, because it’s down time for the venue, so it’s super rates. In January, we’ll do our winter retreat, which is a smaller crowd. If you’re interested in more of a smaller group, and not being with a thousand people, January winter family camp is a great spot.
Then our big group retreat is in April. We’re close to 110 families, over 1,000 people, which is so exciting because Laguna is building a bigger building just for our group. We are one of the main groups that they’re doing it for. So, it’s going to be even bigger, where we can have probably close to 3,000.
THE NEW ABOVE RUBIES MAGAZINE, #102
Nancy: Wow, that’s going to be so great! And you mentioned Pete Pierson. I’ve just been preparing the new issue of Above Rubies. Sadly, I don’t have all the money in for yet, but I get to that stage where I must get another magazine out into the nation, into the world. This magazine is full of the most powerful testimonies and articles. I long to get it out. So, I’m going ahead in faith. It’s now with the design artist, and Pete has written again. He’s written on PRODUCTIVE HOUSEHOLDS. It’s very, very good.
Allison: He did a breakout session.
Nancy: Yes, it was very, very good. Maybe you’re never ever actually made a donation to Above Rubies. The only way I get the magazine out is by donations and the love offerings of God’s people. I rarely talk about it, but I’m so longing to get out this magazine. It costs about $80,000 to print and send out each issue. So, I have about half of that in but I need another $40,000.
It’s amazing. If everybody would just send something, we can put this message out again into the nations. Oh, because we are living in such a deceived world! In the midst of this deception and delusion, we’ve got to get out the truth and especially about families. Because family is the very first thing. Marriage and family are God’s ultimate plan for how we are to live in this world. He designed marriage and family. This was the very first thing He mandated. Before church, before government, before everything else in the world is family.
What has happened today is that the family has become fragmented and separated and disillusioned. No, it’s not meant to be that way. The family is meant to be the strongest unit in the nation, stronger than anything else. Everything must come back to family and to godly marriages and godly families.
We need to keep getting this message out. So, if the Lord touches your heart, respond to Him. Send in whatever the Lord will put on your heart. Use your little . . . and let’s see if we can get this magazine out. It’s already with the design artist so we can just get it out. We can get it on that press as soon as that money comes in.
Allison: You know, when I think about different ministries, I can’t think of another ministry out there that is really, and you’re right, families are the hardest of everything. It’s really where all the societal issues are stemming from. All these lost children, all these confused on gender and identity. It all comes back to the family.
Nancy: It all comes back.
Allison: I don’t know of another ministry that specifically targets helping that root issue, which is the most important issue out there. So important, so important to . . .
Nancy: Yes, and as we’re saying this, dear ladies, I mentioned a couple of podcasts ago that I do believe, and it’s not just me. It’s that so many feel from what God is saying to them, and even in the secular world, that there are going to be difficult times ahead. Very, very difficult for this nation. We must be prepared. I talked about being prepared in many ways and even practically, with food and everything.
But I think the greatest preparation is bringing our families together, being strong as a family, in our marriages. If we’re not strong as a marriage, as husband and wife, and our families are fragmented, we’re not going to survive. We have to be strong and knitted together in our marriages and in our families.
Can I encourage you, dear mothers, to do everything in you power to strengthen your family, your family relationships. Pound your stakes deep. Oh, if you’re even out working because that’s the only way you can survive, I know there are so many who feel that’s the only way they can survive.
But you know what? It’s amazing. I think it’s just a thought pattern, because when I look around, and I see all these families who are surviving, and the mother is home, and the father doesn’t have some great big amazing job, bringing in thousands. He’s just a normal working man and yet they have five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten children, and they’re surviving.
They have taken that step of faith to come home so the mother is in the home, strengthening the home, as you are sharing, getting her children’s hearts. But when they do, they may not live like you’ve got everything you want in life but they have what they need. We can live on just what we barely need. We can! And live well, and live excitingly, and happily, and wonderfully!
RAISING ENTREPENEURS
Allison: My biggest heart is raising entrepreneurs. Having a family business solves several issues. It solves your financial issues. You can bring in so much more money by being an entrepreneur but it also brings the family together. People say all the time, “Well, what do you need?”
I was sitting here thinking, as the mamas listening to this, what are some true practical things that we can do to not fragment the family? And I think having a family business is a great way. Coming up, brainstorming ideas. This is what we do at the dinner table. We’ll have meals together but we’re always brainstorming and coming up with, “What about this idea? You’re really good at this so let’s do this together.” But again, everything we do, we do it together.
Nancy: The amazing thing is that you don’t just talk about them. You actually do them!
Allison: We do. We do.
Nancy: Like you set up a farmer’s market in two places, really, to sell the products the children are making!
Allison: That’s right.
Nancy: You made an outlet for them but an outlet for hundreds of others. Then it becomes another business of yours, and then the children keep thinking of new things that they can make and do and sell. They’re becoming entrepreneurs in their youth.
Allison: We talked about that verse in Ecclesiastes about dividing your substance into seven parts, even into eight. We are really big on having many streams of income. But how wonderful to have those streams of income to be connected to a certain child! It’s amazing how talented our children are. Ethan can do things I could never do.
Having those streams of income and you’re setting them up for success. Instead of them . . . I’ve said before, you want your children’s floor to be your ceiling. The best that you get to in your marriage and in your family, that should be where our children start. And the best way to do that is by setting them up for success.
I think about our married girls. They’re not only starting marriage debt-free, they have several forms of income, but they probably have $50,000 to $100,000 saved up already. And they’re in their young, early 20’s.
Nancy: They’re so young!
Allison: But it’s because when they were 10 and 11 and 12 . . . my ten-year-old made $168 last weekend selling homemade popsicles. That sounds silly but I was able to help her with it and she was able to make enough money to go buy things that she wants. But we did it as a family.
We all sat around last Sunday and we discussed ideas. Again, practical ways to keep your family from fragmenting are doing businesses together, playing sports together, opening up your home for fellowship, and inviting other families. Going to family camp, traveling together, doing ministry together. But again, the word in common is “together.” We try to do everything together.
One thing I did forget to mention about this mama, as a mom with littles, something that I think is a problem that we do as parents is, we give a command, but then we don’t follow through and make sure that that child is going to obey. I think we need to be very careful when we give our children instructions. We need to make sure that we’re following through, and that they are obeying completely.
That’s another way to keep our child’s heart and not frustrate them. We’re giving a command, and we’re yelling it out, not making sure it’s done. Basically, we’re causing division, even in those early years. They’re not going to trust us. We have to give the command, and if this is confusing, well, then set a time when you’re going to specifically give an instruction. You can start this early.
“Hey, Ezra, I want you to go do this, this, and this. But then I’m going to follow through, and make sure you do this, this, and this exactly.” If they did it, praise them. If they didn’t, they need a punishment. They need a specific, and then, let’s try again. I’m trying to think of practical ways so that mothers can take this message and not be frustrated and think, “That sounds so overwhelming. I don’t know how to do it.” Well, it’s all little steps. It all centers around spending lots and lots of time with them.
Nancy: Yes, and I think you’re talking about entrepreneurs. Some families may feel, “Well, we’re not even that entrepreneur type.” I think they’re going to be more so that way but there’s still, I think, one of the things is the actual brainstorming of it. A lot of your children wouldn’t have done anything unless you spurred them on and talked about it and motivated them.
In our family, we have some who are not entrepreneurs, and others who are. Our eldest son is so entrepreneurial, without our even encouraging him. In fact, anything that he wanted, he would get. We never, if our children wanted something, we just didn’t go and get it for them. They had to earn it.
I can remember, as a young boy, he’d even go to the dump and find stuff he could sell to get what he needed. One time Colin and I had been away, and we were ministering overseas. We came back and he was there (I think he was only 15 or 16). He was there at the airport to meet us, and he had these documents. He said, “Dad, would you just sign this?” Colin looked at it, and he had, in our absence (there was this cool car that he wanted) and he had mortgaged our house to buy this car!
Allison: Oh, my goodness!
Nancy: Well, of course, Colin didn’t sign it. But he did help him to get it in other ways! Not through mortgaging our house! It’s amazing what he used to do to get things.
Allison: We did a conference in our town called “Raising Adults.” We had a couple of guest speakers. One of the guest speakers was extremely successful but he talked about allowing our children to fail. I thought that was so interesting because he was so successful. I thought, “That’s the subject you’re going to talk about?”
But he said it’s so important to allow our children to be able to fail. A lot of people say, “I don’t want to do a business because, what if they fail?” We run a farmer’s market, and one market I went up to all the vendors and asked, “How did you do? Are your sales good?” I went up to my own son who’s 15, and I said, “How’d you do, Asher?” He said, “I didn’t sell anything today.” I said, “Oh, man, I’m so sorry.” I really felt bad for him.
I went up to Daniel, and I said, “Man, Asher, I’m putting this market on for everyone else. Everybody else made money, but our son didn’t.” And Daniel said, “Awesome! Great! That’s wonderful!” I said, “Why would you say that?” He said, “Because he’s learning how to fail.”
Just because your son might come up with a bad idea, let him run with it. Of course, we can say, “Oh, I’m not sure if that’s going to work. Maybe try it this way.” But don’t be fearful of failure. This helicopter mom thing is so dangerous. We’re doing everything for our children so that they don’t fail. You are enabling them. You’ve got to allow them to hit rock bottom, because they’re never going to learn.
Nancy: Exactly. I think of our two eldest sons. They went out together in business in so many different things. And they failed. So many times! They fell straight on their faces. But they ended up successful.
Allison: I almost think you have to allow them. I think about, how does Ethan at 18 know how to clean an entire house and do it well? Because I let him. I let him. I don’t go around, “Oh, oh, oh don’t fold that towel that way! Fold it this way.” No, I just let him fold it. If I get it in my cupboard, and it’s in a ball, but it’s clean and doesn’t smell, I’m thrilled!
There are so many moms who are so particular about the way they do it, that they don’t allow their children to fail. Therefore, they don’t allow their children to succeed. I think mine feel free because I’ve given them . . . I’ll end with my statement that I think is so huge, mamas, “Only do what only you can do, and delegate the rest.” If you can allow somebody else to do it, then let them do it, because you're only setting them up for failure if they don’t know how to do it.
By the time they’re 18, whether they’re a girl or a boy, they should be able to deep clean an entire house. By the time they’re 18, they should be able to run an entire household, or we’re not setting them up for success. If we want our girls to be mamas, then they should know how to run a household. There’s no way they can do that unless they’ve been allowed to do it.
Nancy: I was just talking with Halle the other day. And now Halle, is she 19 yet?
Allison: 20, just turned 20.
Nancy: Oh, yes. Married at 18. Halle is so beautiful. You look at her, and you think she’s like a little fairy. But wow! She can do anything! She was working on something. I said, “What are you working on, Halle?” “Well, you know, Mom and Dad have bought this,” what do you call it? Your property? Commercial!
Allison: Commercial property.
Nancy: You’ve bought commercial property. She was designing a whole strip mall! It was amazing! That’s just where she is. She’s a visionary, isn’t she?
Allison: Yes, we’re so excited. We just bought a whole commercial lot, and our goal is to have the whole property be all of our children’s different businesses.
Nancy: She’s got it all designed already.
Allison: And again, it goes back to when they were little. We would allow them to do big things, big-people things, because we want them to be successful.
Nancy: Well, thank you, Allison. Always so good to have you with me again. The children are getting hungry. We’d better stop and get lunch out for everybody.
“Oh Lord, we thank You so much for these times. We can get together and encourage one another in our mothering. Lord God, I pray that You will encourage each mother’s heart today, and inspire them, encourage them, bless them, Oh God, and help them to realize that pouring their lives into their home and into their family is the greatest thing they can do. They are in the very perfect will of God.
“I bless every one of you today. In the precious Name of Jesus. Amen.”
Blessings from Nancy Campbell
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Transcribed by Darlene Norris
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IT IS ENCOURAGING FOR ALL WIVES AND MOTHERS.
AUGUST 7 – 14, PANAMA BEACH, FLORIDA
FAMILY RETREAT, COMING UP IN LESS THAN TWO WEEKS!
DON’T MISS OUT!
There’s still some available housing.
Laguna Beach Christian Retreat,
20016 Front Beach Rd, Panama City Beach, FL 32413 ·
Contact (850) 221 1222 for housing.
(Our last retreat in Panama Beach until January and April next year).
For more information, contact Allison Hartman:
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FURTHER FAMILY RETREATS . . .
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FAMILY RETREAT at Laguna Beach Christian Retreat
20016 Front Beach Rd, Panama City Beach, FL 32413 · (850) 234-2502
For more information, contact Allison Hartman:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. 850 995 9090
APRIL 16 – 23, INCLUDING EASTER WEEKEND
THE YEARLY BIG CELEBRATION!
FAMILY RETREAT at Laguna Beach Christian Retreat
20016 Front Beach Rd, Panama City Beach, FL 32413 · (850) 234-2502
Families come from all over the States so you must book in early to get accommodation!
For more information, contact Allison Hartman:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. 850 995 9090