LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 176 – How Soon can Children come to Know Christ?

Wendy Shaw joins me again today as we talk about raising children in the ways of God. Making the family meal table a place of fun and discussion times with the children. We also discuss at what age a child can come to know Christ.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: We are continuing with Wendy Shaw today. Oh, there were so many things we needed to continue talking about. So, Wendy, it’s so wonderful to have you with us again today.

As you were sharing about your beautiful family and how they developed this beautiful musical band, I was thinking more and more of how it isn’t just passion. Nothing just happens, does it? They had to work hard, and practice hard, and put their minds to it. I think that’s such an example.

It’s amazing, because I was just reading the Word this last week. I read Daniel 2:21: “God giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.” I read that and I thought, “Oh, my. That is so opposite to what we would do. We would think, ‘Oh, my, if someone is wise, why would You give them more wisdom. Someone who’s got lots of understanding, well, why do you have to give them more knowledge for?’”

But I see this throughout the Scripture, because we go to the New Testament, and we see the same thing. It's a Scriptural principle, that God gives more to those who have, and to those who don’t have He takes away.

We go over to Matthew 13:12: “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance.” Wow. Actually, that word, ladies, is a word that I’m often telling you about. It’s the Greek word, perisseuo. It means “super-abundance, over the top, more that is necessary, to excel, to exceed, to increase, over and above.”

It’s an amazing word. It’s a word that is used often in the New Testament, because it’s actually the lifestyle of the kingdom of God, which is not normal, not status quo, but more. It’s more than. It's more than the normal. It’s increasing. It’s excelling. Abundant, over-abundant.

And here it’s used again. It says that the one who has, God will give more, even more abundance. “But whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.” Well, we look at that, and it doesn’t sound very fair, does it?

So, I’ve been thinking a lot about it, and I realized, yes, God looks upon our hearts. And He sees, He sees how we look at things, even listening to His Word, His precious Word. If we just take it lightly, “Oh, well, I guess I’d better read my Bible,” and we just read a few verses and we forget about it, we’re taking it lightly. Do you think God’s really going to give us revelation? No, I don’t think He is.

But if He sees us coming to His Word, and we are there to wait and listen to what He says to us, we’re looking, and we’re searching. We’re longing to hear God’s voice. Maybe we’ve got our journal ready, which I have every day, ready to write what God is saying. God sees our hearts and He says, "Yes, that person is going to take this seriously, what I’m going to say. I’ll give her some more.”

I believe it applies because it talks about in Mark 4. In each place this word comes again in Matthew, and then in Mark. Then over in Luke, and each time it’s slightly different. Mark 4:24-25: “Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.”

Here it’s in the context of hearing, hearing what God is saying to us, and listening. God will give to those who already have, because they’ve already been seeking, and searching, and longing. They’re getting truth from the Word. They’re living it. It’s their life. So, God will give them more!

But, if we take it lightly, we can expect to have nothing. We go over to Matthew 25. That is the passage about the talents. This is where I was thinking of you, Wendy. I’m talking away here. But what I’m saying, does this really relate in your family? And how you have raised your children?

Wendy: Oh, absolutely. I love everything that you were saying there. Those were the things that I thought about seriously. Actually, it reminds me of how I’ve never arrived. There’s always a place that God’s given us, that if we’re not actually using it and developing it, then it’s as. . . He wants to keep doing that and teaching it, and teaching it, and never stop. So, never just coasting, but always going forward. I tend to think, “Oh, I’ve got this down,” and then, uh oh! Be careful.

Nancy: I think one of my favorite Scriptures. . . Well, how can I say I have a favorite Scripture? Because every word is alive and active. Every word is life! But I love Proverbs 4:18: “But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.”

I always look upon the Christian life as a MORE AND MORE life. If we stop where we’re at, well, we’re finished. No, it’s more and more. There’s always more understanding and revelation. And God is waiting to give it to us, but He’s going to give it to those who He knows are going to take it. It’s precious to them. They’re serious about it.

But over here, in Matthew 25, this same principle comes up in the parable about the talents. This I’m reading from another translation now. Matthew 25:28-29: “Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For everyone that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance.” There’s perissueo again, that same amazing word.

“But from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” It’s interesting that the one who got five talents, he made five more. The one who got two, I think he made two more. The one who got one, he went and buried it.

But God called him an unprofitable servant. We go down in the chapter, and it says that those who develop their gifts and work on them, they were “good and faithful” servants. But the one who buries his talent, he was called abundance Most translations say, “lazy.”

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that it’s a very, very powerful principle that God has in His Word. That one, he was lazy. We can’t be lazy about things. God is not going to give more to those who are lazy. Good principle to teach our children, isn’t it? It really is. Yes. I’ve been thinking about that, and it’s very, very powerful.

OK, well! I’ve got to ask you a little bit more about your family. Tell me, Wendy, did you, how did you get to lead your children to Jesus? And did they come to the Lord when they were young? Tell us about that.

Wendy: Absolutely. Thank you for your insights on being profitable in what God’s given us. That's something I always want to keep in mind and try to teach that to our children, over and over still.

When we were evangelizing our children, we first wanted to make sure that we were good examples. And that they knew we were following Someone who we loved, and enjoyed serving, and not just formal religion that we were going through. They saw that we had a passion already for who Jesus is, and really wanted to form our lives and everything that we were doing with the structure of His Word.

That was something that we . . .  everything that we did was through that lens. Is God’s will here? When they were young, there was a point where they all had a lot of questions. We encourage lots of questions. We love them. They had some really good ones and they always led to different discussions about personal relationships that they can have on their own with Jesus.

They were all very young when they wanted to do that on their own. Kevin would take them aside to make sure they understood. I would say afterwards, “You’re talking them out of it!” And he said, “No, I just want them to count the cost. I want them to understand that this is a disciplined life. This is not an easy path and that this is something, a big decision.

He wanted them to know that this was on their own, and not something that they knew we would be happy with. There was a very strong conviction that they would have on their own.

So, yes, they were all between five and seven years old, very early. We baptized them early. Sometimes in a church, sometimes in a little kiddy pool in our front yard. Just depends.

One child was saying, “Why do I have to obey?” I read them the story of the Ethiopian, “Look, there’s water.” She said, “Look, there’s my pool! My kiddy pool.” That was Macy. Kevin baptized her in our front yard.

So, we were talking about that, what do they understand? I feel like I’m going to believe them, what they say. Now I need to make sure that they’re discipled and they’re showing fruit. That’s how I would know if it was a true conversion, that they would be showing fruit.

Nancy: I think that’s beautiful, Wendy. I do believe myself that children growing up in a godly home where they’re hearing the Word of God daily, that they can be ready for salvation at a very early age.

I think of the Word, what does it say in Peter? 1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” We come, we’re brought to Christ through the Word of God. This incorruptible seed, which is alive. What does it say here? It lives and abides forever.

Now, children who grow up in home where they’re hearing the Word of God every day, it’s going into their spirit. It’s building faith in them, and it’s preparing them to be so ready to embrace Jesus, and to embrace truth.

We go over to 2 Timothy 3:15. Here Paul is writing to Timothy. In fact, at the beginning of the book, in 2 Timothy 1:5: “When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.” Timothy’s faith came right down through his grandmother and his mother who were pouring the Word of God into him.

2 Timothy 3:15: “And that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures.” Even “from a child, thou hast known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”

So, the Word makes us wise to salvation, to understand salvation. A person growing up in an ungodly home and never hearing the Scriptures, they’re not ready. Often, later in life, they’ll hear the gospel, and they will receive Christ. But children in a home where they’re living under the anointing of God’s living Word can come to faith very, very early.

That word, “from a child,” in the Greek, is the word brephos. That word is used when Jesus was in the womb. The word brephos is also used of Jesus when He was a babe, lying in the manger. That word, “babe,” is brephos. So, this word is used of a babe in the womb. It’s used of a baby born, and, of course, as a little toddler, and a little child. It’s of a very young age.

So, I think the best time to start reading the Word to our children is when they’re in the womb. We don’t wait even until they’re born! And then, even when they’re born, and as a family we’re having family devotions together, mother’s just nursing her baby, and of course, the baby doesn’t understand a thing, but he’s hearing the Word. It’s already going into him.

I have a little quote here. One time I read the most beautiful book. It’s now out of print, but I think you can find it on the internet if you look it up. It’s How to Have a Family Altar, by Norman Williams.

In his book he writes: “A child of three months is too young to understand Galatians 5:22-23,” which is of course, talking about the fruit of the Holy Spirit. He says: “But he’s not too young to enjoy it. The greatest secret of shaping the life of the child from day one to six years of age is to make Galatians 5:22-23 the very spirit and life of your home. Then your child will literally feed on the love of God, both emotionally and spiritually. He will absorb that out of his environment, which will make him emotionally and spiritually healthy and strong.”

In another place he writes: “The parents’ great privilege during the first six years is to make this child acquainted with Christ as his maker and his loving friend. Before the child is three-and-a-half, he should be saved and know that Christ made him and loves him. The child should learn to lovingly speak the Name of Jesus, right along with the name of Daddy and Mommy.

“In the first six years of life, the child has a strong sense of the reality of the invisible. There is a strongly developed dimension of his being that senses the reality of the invisible, and that reaches out to experience and to know that reality. The failure to supply this need through the Word of God causes him to people the invisible with objects of his own imagination, such as fairies and gremlins and Santa Claus, and so on. They are a fantasy.

“God has given the child a strong sense of the reality of the invisible as a foundation for receiving the truth of Christ and His Word in the earliest and tender years. We should pray diligently for those parents who starve their children for the Word of God, and then feed them lies about fairies, witches, gremlins, and Santa Claus.” So true. “These are the devil’s lies and substitute for the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word.”

I’m thinking back to our own children. Most of them received Jesus into their lives about four years of age. I noticed last week you were saying how that at four years of age, you started your children practicing the violin. They got a little tiny violin. Well, if a child is old enough to begin practicing a violin, he is old enough to receive Jesus. Especially when he’s filled with this Word which has been constantly read out loud to him every day.

I love to encourage you young moms to be watching your precious children. When you see their tenderness and openness to Jesus and His Word, to give them that opportunity to ask Jesus to come into their lives. Because they can do it at such a tender age, and it can be so real.

I remember Evangeline’s testimony. I had just prayed with her brother. They were twins, Stephen and Evangeline. Then I went into Evangeline, and I said to her, “Stevie’s just asked Jesus to come into his life. Would you like to, too?”

I didn’t know what was going on in her life. But she told me later, especially even years later. She said, “It was as though there was this fight between heaven and hell.” She said, “Everything in me was fighting to say, ‘No! No! No! No! You must not!’” There was this enemy trying to stop her.

But then there was that beautiful tender voice of Jesus saying, “Come, I want to come in.” She said she had to fight, but eventually she said, “Yes, Lord Jesus. Come into my life.” She said at that moment, that moment, her life changed, at four years of age. She has never (you know Vange), I don’t think for one day of her life she has ever even had negative thought of turning away from walking with God. She has totally followed Him.

She was very scared of the owl outside her room. She says from that day, she was never scared of that owl again. She’s never been scared of anything since, as you know.

That was a real salvation. I know, as a young child, I was a little older than that, but I also fought with the powers of darkness. It shows you how the enemy is vying for our children. He wants our children. And the sooner they belong to Jesus, the better, because also, when Jesus comes into their lives, He dwells with them. We are now able to teach them more, in a greater way, how to walk with God.

OK, this is every child. Of course, even us, we deal with the flesh all the time. Our children are going to deal with the flesh. They’re going to get mad, and get rebellious, and get mad with their brother and sister. We can then say to them, “But Johnny, you have Jesus living within you now. He doesn’t get mad. He doesn’t scream and fight and kick. No, He loves your brother, and He wants to live His life in you. You’ve got to learn to say, ‘Yes’ to Jesus, and ‘No’ to the devil.”

They begin to learn. Often, we start learning when we’re adults. They learn now because now they have Christ helping them. He is in them. He wants to live His life in them. It is such a beautiful thing.

I think it’s something that we should encourage. I love to encourage you, lovely moms, especially when you’re having family devotions. You’re reading the Word, and there’s many times you sense the Presence of God on your children. It’s a beautiful time to ask them, at that time, “Would you like to ask Jesus into your life now?”

If the Presence of God is on them, and they’ve been living in the Word, they’re going to be ready to do that. It is so wonderful. So, of course, that’s important. The sooner the better!

But then, of course, all our lives we’re little by little teaching them how to walk with the Lord. How did you teach your children to grow stronger with the Lord?

Wendy: Well, a lot of what you’re saying we did with the Scripture, because it is powerful. There's so much power in God’s Word just being spoken out loud. We would do that often, as far as, in many ways.

We would always lead them back to the Bible if they raised any kind of argument or discussion on something, and there was a question about it. We would say, “Well, let’s look. Let’s see what God says. I don’t want to make something up for your life. I want you to be able to do this on your own when you’re older, so let’s start early, and see what God says we should do.”

Also, we started reading the Bible as a family every day, about 16 years ago. We made it a commitment to never miss a day. That could be, we were in the car, in a restaurant, in a hospital room, in many different states and places. Even if we had company over, we made sure to always get God’s Word spoken out loud.

I’ve underestimated sometimes what my children can understand. Even at an early age, they understand a lot more than I think they do. God, of course, in His Spirit, can always teach them through His Word, even better than I can. Just by them hearing it, even if they were in the other room, and someone said, “Go bring them in.” Just to have that spoken Word spoken over them, and they’ll remember it.

I’ve been surprised to find in different conversations we’ve had with our children, and they’ll bring out this random story from the Old Testament. We were like, “Wow! They remembered that!” Their minds are sponges. They soak everything in. Even if it doesn’t seem applicable right now, God can use that later on in their life and remind them of that spoken Word, to speak to them in a different situation.

Nancy: That is so wonderful. I love the challenge of your not missing a day. Doesn’t matter where you are, and in what circumstances. That is incredible. It reminds me of a wonderful family in New Zealand. This father of the family was an evangelist, actually preaching on end times events.

He had such a great teaching ability. He would come to churches. Often, he came to our church. He could preach for two hours non-stop, and everyone was spellbound. Even the children would be spellbound.

But their walk really was lived out in their lives. I remember one time they were staying with us. It came the next morning, they were off to go. They had to leave by a certain time. But I noticed that as they were going off, all the children were piled in the car, before he drove off down the drive, he said, “Children, OK, get out the Daily Light,” because he used to read that. That’s just Scriptures for every day.

He didn’t even start the car until they had read the Scriptures for the day, before they even started on their journey. Here they were, traveling not only all-over New Zealand, but they even travelled to other countries of the world. It didn’t matter what they were doing. Even if they were in hotels, or wherever, they read the Scriptures daily.

I think that is so good. It is the Scriptures really, that are our answer. I would find that in any situation I had with the children, I could always find God has an answer in His Word. The times too, when you see some sort of weakness in their lives, something which wasn’t right. “OK, what does the Scripture say about this?”

I’d not only have it maybe in our reading when we were as a family, but I would write them out in big words, and pin them up in the bathroom, or the toilet, or their bedrooms where they could read them. So, the Word is just going into them. There’s just nothing like the Word! Amen.

Oh, yes, Wendy, you’ve often said to me how you love that book that I wrote, The Family Meal Table and Hospitality. Sadly, that book is out of print. But because of you, I’m going to be reprinting it soon. Because you keep saying to me, “When is it coming back into print?” But tell me, why was it special to you? How did it affect you in the raising of your children?

Wendy: Thank you so much for that. That is one of my all-time favorite books, and I’ll tell you why. Because hospitality is a way to serve others in so many different ways. I feel like hospitality starts in the home, but it extends out. You can be hospitable in someone else’s house, or in a restaurant, or in a church.

Just the whole concept of it, it was something that really resonated with me. “Oh, I want to be good at this! I want to do it!”  I remember the very first time that we had a couple over, a family over. It took me all day long to prepare. I was so nervous.

I was thinking, “Did I do this all right?” Now, we have so much experience, being in other people’s homes, and having people over is like, “Who wants to grab something from the freezer?” And it’s very fine.

But I loved your book because it gave practical examples to do. It reassured me that nothing has to be perfect. People just want to show up. Hospitality is basically serving them. In every situation where we’ve been in someone else’s house, I’ll take away, “Oh, I like how they did that,” and I’ll try to do it in my house.

Or “Oh, that made me feel awkward. I’m going to try to not do that.” I know that feeling now. That’s good. It was a good thing. Always feel it’s a reminder that it’s a good way to keep and train around the family meal table.

You had a lot of creative ways to do that. I brought the book with me. Yes, I’ll remind you that it was printed in 1999, so it’s time!

Nancy: Oooh, that’s a long time! Well, what happened, we just ran out, and the printer that was printing it, they went out of business. So, I have to start again. I couldn’t just say, “Oh, print another so many copies!” That was a bit of extra work, but I really am planning to do it, because so many people keep calling for it.

Wendy: I remember when I got my hands on this book, I loved it so much that I bought a whole bunch of copies for my friends at that time. They could have it, too. I have so many dog-ears and highlights in here. I have this one from 2012 where I had written out different children to bless on each day, and the music night, and a color night.

It's been so fun to use this as a springboard to be creative on my own, too. To think, “Oh, that gives me a good idea!” It’s out of print, but it’s not out of date.

Nancy: Of course, you can’t get it just yet, but you will be able to in the future. You don’t have to wait for the book. You can start being hospitable now. I think, even before you begin to be hospitable, which is a Biblical concept, you know. The early church, that was their lifestyle. It was hospitality. They met in each other’s homes daily (Acts 2:46, 47).

But I think even before you do that, you’ve got to get it going in your own home. The meal table needs to be a very special place for your family. You want to bring people to something that is special to you. So, begin making your mealtimes so precious and wonderful.

In that book, I know, I gave lots of ideas I found when I was raising our children. At least once a week, sometimes I do it more, I would think of something different or special to do at the meal table.

I do have a goal. It’s a quote that I heard one time, to “Make every meal a love affair.”

I love to do that for every meal. But then, I love to make special meals, too, especially when the children were growing. I love to do special things. I know that you said, “Color Night.” Don’t children love that? When they get older, they get past that. But when they are young, oh! They think that’s so fun.

I think we went through every color of the rainbow. I would say to the children, “All right, children! Tonight, is red night! I’m going to make a red meal for you. But I want you to all go back to your rooms and find clothes that are all red. You’ve all got to come out when it’s time, and everybody’s got to be dressed in red!”

And I would have red plates and I would cook food that was red. We’d have beets, and we’d have mashed potatoes, which were colored with red food coloring. You know, everything we could find that was red. red juice, and red everything. Maybe some little gifts that were red. But the children, they think that’s fun. And it’s very simple, but it’s such fun.

Then, other times, I would have to spend time on this, and I would think of little rhymes or little couplets that rhymed. I would write them about the children. Then I’d make these little name cards for them and put them on their places with the little rhyme or couplet, or four lines of rhyming, just about them. They would think it was so special.

Then we’d have other nights where we’d do special things. What were some of the special things you liked to do? Can you remember them?

Wendy: Yes. As I was going through this book, I was thinking, “Oh! All these things that we did a lot with our older, and now, because they’re all going out and about in different places. . .

Nancy: You have such different seasons in your life, don’t you? I do encourage you, when you’re in this season, lovely moms, and all your children are around you, OK, they’re not quite to that older group, where they’re all going out to their various ways. Or you’ve just got all these little younger ones, who are too young yet to do these special things.

When you’ve got this middling time, and they’re all there, can I please ask you, don’t just let it go by? Don't get so busy. You’re out doing this and that, and you don’t do special things. Because this is the season to do very special things with your children at your meal table.

You don’t have to go out and pay to go to some entertainment. You can do things that are so special that they’ll be memories for a lifetime. So, make the most of these days. You were going to share something?

Wendy: I’m so glad you said that because I need to make more time for this for all the rest that are still at home. Because we get so busy, coming and going. I want to still make it fun and special. Well, I know that encouragement is big for us. You all do this for your birthdays. It’s great. It's where everyone goes around and says something encouraging about the other person. I love doing that. That’s something that we try to do a lot.

I think that a lot of this is that we made it into our lives. We automatically just do it. We encourage questions. We ask, we have discussions. This is just who we are now. I just need to add those fun things in because I'm listening to this, thinking, “Oh! Yeah.”

Nancy: Because this season changes, and the older children are getting involved in things, you can forget. I need to be reminded too. I love it. If you’ve got a big family, you need to take it one by one. “OK, Sarah, tonight I want you to bring a poem to the family table, and to read it. Share with us why you like it.” It gives the whole family an appreciation for poetry and things like that.

“Or some quote from a wonderful book you’ve read.” Get them to do that. Those are good things to do. You can think of so many thousands of things. I’ll have to get this book out for you again!

But anyway, our time has gone again. Thank you, Wendy. It's been so good to share with you, to hear about your family. Thank you.

“Father, we do thank You so much for families. We pray that You will save us from getting taken up with so much around us that, Lord, we don’t see that our most precious thing we have is right in front of us. It is our family.

“Lord, I pray that You will show each precious mother new ideas, that You’ll put in her mind different things she can do at her family table to make it exciting and wonderful and meaningful for her children.

“Lord God, we thank You that family is the very first thing that you instigated into this world. Before church, before government, before every organization on this earth, Lord, it was family. Help us to, Lord, keep putting family first, Lord God, because this is Your priority. We ask this in the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell * www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 

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LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 175 – The Joys of Family Life

Today you will meet Wendy Shaw, mother of ten children. Joshua, their last little boy (Down’s Syndrome) is the STAR of their family and the greatest blessing to all. The Shaw family have a musical band called SHAW--CITIZENS OF GLORY. We talk about how they fitted in homeschooling and musical practice and how they have brought up their children on the Word of God and prayer. One of their daughters is now married to Ben Crevier, one of the CHAMPIONS FOREVER family. You can look them up on the Internet.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to the Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies! Well, I’m looking out the window here and it’s the most glorious fall day, still so sunny and warm. But the leaves are falling down and it’s so beautiful. And I have with me today another wonderful mother I’m going to introduce to you. Her name is Wendy Shaw. Say “Hi!”

Wendy: Hello, everybody.

Nancy: Yes, now Wendy is originally from California. Were you anywhere before that, Wendy?

Wendy: No, just California.

Nancy: Well, I met Wendy in California because she asked me to come and do an Above Rubies Day seminar in her home. That was such a wonderful day. I can’t even remember how many years ago. Can you?

Wendy: Oh, my. 2012?

Nancy: It was a long time ago. The children were all young. So that’s where I met the wonderful Shaw family. Then, just a couple of years ago, I found that they turned up here in Tennessee! They came to live in Franklin. We found out they were here and so we got together again.

We have a volleyball court on our land here, so the young people used to come out and play with our young people in the midst of their very busy lives, because you’ll get to hear more about Wendy and all their wonderful busy lives.

But anyway, I should get you, Wendy, to just start off introducing your children. I think you really only know someone when you know their children. I go to hear a speaker, and they’re up there on the platform, I’m thinking, “I wonder what they’re really like? I wonder what her husband’s like? I wonder what her children are like?” Do you think of that? Yes, I do.

Wendy: Well first, I want to thank you for having me here. I just love talking with you. You have been instrumental in our family, a big influence for more than 20 years. A lot of what we are right now is because of your encouragement and your ministry. So, I’m just completely honored to be able to talk to you and I never fail to gain an insight at any time from you, whenever personally talking to you, or listening to you, it’s always been a great lesson. Definitely so, so grateful to know you.

Nancy: Thank you.

Wendy: We have ten children, ages 28, almost 28, next week, down to seven years old.

Nancy: I can’t believe that, because Chase was just a young guy when he was there. How old was he then?

Wendy: I think he was around 12.

Nancy: Yes, he was only 12. He did all, not only the recording, the filming. You filmed that day, and then he put together the DVD, and organized it, and did everything. We sold that DVD for many, many years, until somehow, you know, things sort of have their day. Everybody’s got it.

I remember speaking on who are we, as a woman. What is our purpose, and who are we really? I can’t believe that the years have rolled on. He’s married now, isn’t he?

Wendy: He has our first grandchild, with his wife, Jaeleen. They're really excited about that. I remember that conference that you did. It was all day, and it was just thoroughly so beneficial, from young women all the way up to older women, including everybody on the benefits of being a mom.

I thank you for giving Chase that opportunity to be able to film you and do all that. That was so exciting for him to learn those skills. He was serving God very well. So, thank you.

Nancy: Tell us who comes next!

Wendy: Ok, so we have five boys and five girls total. They’re about every two years. I remember when Chase and Holly, our first boy and girl were born. It was at that time I thought, “OK, so everyone’s asking if you’re done, right? You’ve got your boy and your girl.”

About that time, I received an Above Rubies magazine, and I was thinking, “Yes, everything within me agrees with this!” At that point, we kept going. I loved being a mom. Our pregnancies were very difficult, but it’s just birth season. Then at the end, there a lifetime of blessing with the children. It’s been fun to be able to go through life with them. There’s so much to celebrate.

Nancy: And Holly is married now, too?

Wendy: Yes.

Nancy: That was recently, wasn’t it?

Wendy: It was just last month that she got married to Ben. That was a really fun wedding. They’re living in South Dakota now.

Nancy: That was another exciting Above Rubies romance, really. We’ll have to tell you this little story, because Allison and Daniel Hartman, who put on the Above Rubies retreats in Panama in Florida (Actually, the one for next year is coming up in April).

Their daughter (the Hartman daughter) met this lovely young man from the Crevier family. They got married, and of course now, the Hartmans know the Creviers. So, they asked the Crevier family to come down to the Above Rubies retreat in Panama, Laguna Beach.

They have this amazing family of 12 children, and they are also called CHAMPINS FOREVER. I wonder if you’ve ever heard of them? They are literally amazing. I mean, all these young men, and some of the girls, they ride these huge, one-wheeled cycles. Do you know how high they are?

Wendy: I can’t remember. I should know this. No, I do not.

Nancy: I can’t remember how high they are, but they are high! I know my brother was also a one-wheel cyclist. He used to ride a 14-foot high one-wheeled bike. I think these would be about the same. They’re really high.

They do amazing tricks on them. They also do all this basketball stuff. The father, Bruce Crevier, he is the world-record-holder for spinning a basketball, I think for over 22 hours. He’s in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Wendy: I think several times he’s in it.

Nancy: Yes! He’s just done so many things. I think he spun, how many balls at once? It's about 30 bowls at once, or something.

Wendy: I get nervous.

Nancy: You can actually go on the internet and look up CHAMPIONS FOREVER. You will begin to read all about them. They’re pretty amazing.

So, what happened was, of course the Shaw family came down to the Above Rubies Family Retreat too. Of course, all the young people were meeting one another. That’s where they met!

Wendy: Yes, exactly. That was so funny. We have a joke between our families, be careful of who you park your bus next to! Because as soon as he drove up, and it was Vange who had talked us into coming, because we had just gotten home from a tour, and we just needed to stay home for couple of days.

She said, “No, you’ve got to come! You’ve got to meet this family, the Crevier family!” We didn’t even know them at that point. She said, “You’ve got to meet them!” We were so thankful that we went, not only for meeting them, but the whole conference was so good. So many good families that we were able to meet there. And, of course, you and Colin.

Yeah, right when we pulled up close to them at night, the kids got up and were talking to each other, and were just instant friends. Actually, our other daughter, Ellie, is dating Ben’s brother, Micah.

Nancy: Isn’t that just too exciting? OK, so this is the CHAMPIONS FOREVER family. But the Shaw family are the CITIZ3ENS OF GLORY family. They have amongst all their children, they have the most beautiful, glorious, musical band. They are so amazing.

When the Shaws arrived in Franklin, we got to know they were here. We said, “Oh, you’ve just got to come out and play.” In our big room downstairs, where we have church, and we have all our social gatherings, we packed in everybody we could, and they put on a concert.

You’ve done three concerts for us here. And they’ve just been so special. Now, I think you also need to go onto the internet and look up CITIZENS OF GLORY. Maybe you can ask your church folk if they could invite them to come and play. They are so beautiful.

I think I have never actually heard girls play the violin like their girls. We were all with our mouths dropped open. We were screaming and cheering and clapping. We just couldn’t get over how amazing they were! We’re just so proud of your amazing family. So, tell us who they are!

Wendy: OK, yes. So, we’re Citizens of Glory. We started our family band several years ago, just wanting to teach the children music.

Nancy: Teach the children.

Wendy: The children need to get such an important tool that God uses. He invented and created it. It speaks so much, sometimes when we dance to songs and melodies. We started them early, when they were four years old. Then we went to nursing homes and retirement centers.

Nancy: So, they started learning the violin at four? Could they play loads of instruments? They started some of them at an early age too.

Wendy: Yes. They started violin. As soon as they turned four, they got this cute little mini violin. It looked like a toy. They had to stay with it and learn it well before they could go to any other instrument. Once they learned it, they had to stay in music. That was our family rule. You must stay in music. Pick out any other instrument you want, but you’ve still got to play something.

It went from there. We prayed over them, prayed a lot, that God would use music as a tool to point to Him. We weren’t sure what that would look like, so we kept thinking one step at a time and seeing where God was leading in it. It’s really exciting to see how He’s led us.

Nancy: So, you took the children to play and sing at these nursing homes. I think that’s so great. I think it’s so true, that everything starts little, doesn’t it? We have to be faithful in the little things, even the littlest things of life. I think if we’re faithful in them, God always sees that they get bigger.

Sometimes I have ladies who will send me in a poem, or something like that, and say, “Could you publish this in Above Rubies?” I may not always have room, because a poem is something you can pop in a little free spot that you have.

But I write back to those ladies and say, “Don’t wait to be published in Above Rubies. If God’s given you a beautiful poem, or even something that He’s given you to write, share it with someone who you know will be blessed. Write it out beautifully, or type it, and send it to them or give it to them or make it into a plaque. Do something, but use what God gives you to the people around you, and then it grows from there.

Wendy: Absolutely, because God gives within all of us everything that we need to be able to bless and serve Him. Everything that to us, it might seem that we don’t know much, or it’s not that big, or who would want to know? But there is someone out there who needs that, who needs that encouragement, that would be blessed by it.

Whatever it is, whatever talent or gift that God’s given us, they’re there for a purpose. And those are to please Him. So as soon as you serve with them, it might seem little to us, but it would be very big, possibly, for the person receiving it. So, we always want to encourage everyone to never think that they don’t have anything to share. There’s always something.

Nancy: God obviously gave those beautiful gifts of music to your family, but when I listen to them, and their skills, you know that they must have practiced for hours and hours and hours and hours, the skills that they have. So, we can have gifts, and yet not really use them. You have to actually work at gifts too, don’t you? Did you have to make them practice, or did they just do it? Tell me about that!

Wendy: Yes, of course, they didn’t always want to do it. Nothing in life that is well worth, or of high quality, comes easy or free. We always need to instill in our children that you need to work, and so diligently, and give all, whatever we’re doing. Sometimes serving others is not always convenient or fun but it should be at the top of the list.

But when we know we’re practicing with a purpose in mind, a goal in mind, it did not make things a lot easier. When we’re asked about how to get the children to practice when they’re not wanting to, at least they’ve put that goal out there. Give them a vision outside of themselves, bigger than themselves. They see where it’s going. They can see, this is the end result of what it can go for. It’s not just for nothing. It’s got, there’s got to be something we can aim for.

Nancy: Yes. So, even in the early days, when they were still young, you weren’t just saying, “You must practice your music!” But no, “You’ve got to practice because we’re going to go out to these nursing homes, and you’ve got to be ready!” So, they were working towards something, even if it was smaller than what they’re doing now. That's a very good thing.

It’s a very difficult thing to get children to practice, just for the sake of practicing, isn’t it? Really, that’s just about, that gets a bit difficult. But I think that’s very important, that there was something that they were doing it for. Did they mostly do it because they wanted to?

Wendy: That’s a good question. We tend to bring personalities and dynamics and strengths and weaknesses. There were sometimes others really wanted to have that practice, and others didn’t. Sometimes it rotated. Sometimes there were concerts we gave. We’d have to pull one aside, “You know, you weren’t smiling during that concert.”

It's just something that we learned as we were doing, how what we’re reflecting, we’re reflecting Christ. People will reflect also, us. So, we want to make sure that, if we’re smiling, then people will smile back. If we are, whatever we’re doing, we’re doing well, and we’re excited and passionate about it, then it can get other people excited and passionate as well.

We want to be passionate about Christ and about what He is excited for. And then that breeds the synergy that gets everyone else involved and excited with it.

Nancy: Did you incorporate their music with your homeschooling or was that separate? How did that all work?

Wendy: Yes. The music was definitely. . . There is a lot of practice, and it was every day. A couple of hours. There’s individual practice and there’s also the group practice. It did take some time. We had some lessons also in that. A lot of our family meetings and talks were centered around music. It was a lifestyle. It was not just a subject, separated out, but it really included everything that we did.

When we did go out on the road, it was something that was natural. This is what we do.

Nancy: I guess they learned so many skills, apart from music and sound, and all this stuff. Recording and everything. It’s got bigger and bigger.

Wendy: Absolutely. So, everyone that had different talents outside the band also got to use them for putting the CDs together, for contacting churches, for putting together different marketing tools we had. There are skills in video, the visual art of it. They all contributed. It was like a big, huge unit study of life.

And, of course, going on the road, meeting people, was huge too, because when you meet some more people, that we were able to meet, the more people we’d see. We get to see a lot of diversity, a lot of culture, a lot of ways that God has worked in people that we would have never known. We’re always quick to ask people their God stories, to see what has God done, how has He moved in your life in a miraculous way? That encourages us. We get excited to also hear those things from people.

Nancy: Now, you’re only up to Holly. Keep going down the line!

Wendy: OK. Macy, and she is 23. She has taken on most of the booking. She does a lot. But she has her own businesses. Kevin encourages the children when they’re little to be very productive. To be producers, not consumers. Start little, start young in coming up with things. Now is the time.

The window of opportunity in youth to experience things, and for older, to share with them is unlimited, because you always tell them, if you went in to see the president of a corporation, it would be very difficult. But a little young child, like ten, they might be more well-received and shared with. Take every advantage right now of the youth to explore and find out what interests are. Macy has done that when she was young. She’s ventured out in some things that she’s doing.

And then we have Justus. He had a drone business for a while for real estate. He would do drone footage. He’s now getting into some other things that he’s finding interesting. But it’s great that they can make their trial and error now. We can support and invest in them as they’re young. It gives them a great head start when they do go out on their own,

And then we’ve got Ellie. She’s the one that is dating Ben’s brother, Micah. They are a fantastic family. I’m so excited. I’ve only been able to tour with them a couple times.

Nancy: That would be so wonderful, having both the Champions Forever and Citizens of Glory. It must have been wonderful!

Wendy: Yes, it was just a blast. It was so fun. We couldn’t believe we got to do this for work! Actually, I have to say, Citizens of Glory was the name we have still going, but we changed to SHAW.

Nancy: Oh, you just called it SHAW, because that’s your family name. Well, I like that!

Wendy: That’s what people were calling us anyway.

Nancy: Yes, I know. We call you “Shaw.” “The Shaw Family is coming out!” We never really used Citizens of Glory. But you could have Shaw and then in smaller letters The Citizens of Glory.

Wendy: Yes. Yes. That's what it looks like on all our marketing material, yes. It’s been exciting to see what God does.

Nancy: So, when they look up, what do they look up next?

Wendy: Either. OK, so we’re down to Amy and Lilly. They're both very gifted musically. Their ages are, Amy is 16, and Lilly is 14. We make sure to remind our children that when we’re faithful in little, then more will be given, like we mentioned earlier.

Every time they use their skills, they can count on God increasing that, as long as they’re using that in the right way for Him. So, they’re going in a great direction. They’ve got lots of talent in their areas.

Then we’ve got the three little boys, Peter, Daniel, and Joshua. Our youngest, Joshua, has Down’s Syndrome.

Nancy: Before you get to him, even. Peter, oh! He’s so, he’s young, but he gets up there and sings as though he’s just been a star for twenty years! I mean, he’s just amazing!

Wendy: Yes, I think you’re thinking of Daniel.

Nancy: I am?

Wendy: Yes, Peter’s the drummer.

Nancy: Oh, That’s right! But they’re both . . .

Wendy: People get them mixed up.

Nancy: How old is Daniel?

Wendy: Daniel is nine.

Nancy: Nine! Yes, this nine-year-old, this nine-year-old sings like, well, as though he’s been a pro for years! He’s just unbelievable.

Wendy: He grew up on the road singing, so he doesn’t know. He thinks, “This is what I do. Doesn't every nine-year-old do this?” He does really love it. He loves people.

Nancy: He’s not just singing because his momma and daddy say, “You’ve got to be part of it.” No! He loves every second of it, doesn’t he?

Wendy: He absolutely does. He puts his whole heart and soul into every song. He really loves being up there and interacting with the audience.

Peter is a fantastic drummer for our band. He’s only 11, and he keeps the beat for us. It’s amazing what he can do at his age. He’s great.

And then Joshua.

Nancy: And before she tells us about Joshua, I have to tell you, of all their beautiful family, he is the star of the show. Definitely the star of the show. I mean, he has certain times when he comes up, and oh! The whole place melts.

Wendy: Yes. Every one of us in our family, when we think of Joshua, we get this huge smile on our faces. He has so much personality. He really does have a way with people. He sees a lot of people. Those with Down’s Syndrome do. They have their . . . I once heard this term. They’re love generators. They seem to bring out love and they love unconditionally.

Of course, their human nature comes out too, but just the sense of caring, and nothing to hold them back from showing it. No inhibitions. So, yeah, Joshua touches people. One is that they see someone up there who has a disability who is fine with it. He has so much to offer, without being, quote-unquote, perfect in the world’s eyes, because he was fearfully and wonderfully made how he is. And God does have a reason and a purpose for him.

We share that message with others. We have seen grown men cry, because they’re so touched by that message that’s so contrary to what the world tells us in aborting for that very condition that he has. The high rate of abortion for children diagnosed with that is so sad. They are very special in God’s eyes, and He made them. Like anybody else, they have a soul like anybody else.

He gets up there and he is amazing. He loves it. Kevin says, my husband says he has stage fright. He’s afraid of not being on the stage! He has a special song that Macy wrote for him called “You Are Perfect.” He goes up there with his ukulele and he sings alongside her. He takes a little bow afterwards and he’s just glowing.

After the concert, he’ll usually go back up to the stage. He has a lot of people who come up and watch him and talk to him because he is prime, all by himself up there. He likes that. Yeah, he’s really special.

We were surprised about his Down’s Syndrome. I didn’t know. I’m glad I didn’t because I probably would have worried. God took care of everything. He knew exactly what our family needed. Joshua has made our family better. I’m very thankful for him, for all our children. Everything that we are is because God has enabled us all to do what He has given us to do.

Nancy: Little Joshua, he has a special something with everyone in his family. It's been a blessing. He is a blessing, not only to you and Kevin, but everyone in the family. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Wendy: Yeah, sure. He actually gets the most hugs out of everybody. He does have a special relationship with everyone. Everyone is his favorite. He’s everyone’s favorite. He makes coffee with Ellie. He’s got his little thing with everyone.

Daniel is someone that he’s always copying the most. Whatever Daniel says, Joshua, very specific details, will do. He imitates him a lot. That's a big responsibility for Daniel, he’s done a great job.

Nancy: It’s just so wonderful to see how, I think in many ways he adds an extra sparkle to your whole family, doesn’t he? It's like a sparkle, you know? It actually is. His eyes sparkle, don’t they?

Wendy: They do. And he does the craziest things that catch us off guard. A lot that we’re not expecting. He keeps us on our toes all the time. Because of the mental side of Down’s Syndrome where he’s a little bit slower, he’s not slower physically. So, he’s capable of doing things, but not really thinking about what he’s doing.

We found him in our car in the driveway waiting to go somewhere. We were asking, “Where’s Joshua? Where’s Joshua?” Then, “Oh, he’s in the car waiting for us!” He can do things like that. We had to, just a couple of years ago, we had to put knobs on all our doors so that he wouldn’t go out on his own, because he can.

He would just say, “Bye!” He’d get all his extra change of clothes with him for some reason. He would just say, “Bye!” He’d make sure he said “Bye” to everybody, and then walk out. So, we watched him a lot more.

Nancy: How far would he go?

Wendy: Oh, he went down the street one time. When we were in California, our neighbors brought him home. He was trying to find Justus. But he hasn’t done that in a long time. He pretty much stays close to home. He gets well-prepared for leaving.

Nancy: He likes going out on the road, does he?

Wendy: Oh, yes, he loves it. He has a little bowtie that he wears for shows. When it’s time to change, he makes sure that he’s warming up with everyone. And changing at the same time everyone else is. All his brothers and sisters get stands, and he’ll sit in the back and sing along with them, really loud something, and clap. He’s the first to clap and stand for them. He’s very much a part of everything that we do.

Nancy: I know your Instagram account is The Prayerful Mom. Yes, if you’re on Instagram, you can look up Wendy, The Prayerful Mom. Choosing that name, has prayer been a big part of raising your children?

Wendy: Oh, it’s been central. It’s like breathing. Yes. Yes. Daily, we have things that we pray for them, every single day and every night.

Nancy: You have a list of twenty things to pray for your children. Did you write those? Did you?

Wendy: Tom Harmon, who is a pastor from Michigan, came up with 16 things to pray for your children and I loved them. I took those, and I thought, “Well, I need to combine these two, and add my own. Just make it my own thing.” So, I came up with those 20 things I’ve been praying for many years.

I did make a list of those, and I put it on my Instagram account to share with others. If that is helpful for others, not to pray exactly, but as a jumping-off point, to pray for whatever their specific needs are. It gives you areas. Sometimes, if I don’t have everything written in front of me, I forget something, and I don’t want to forget anything.

Nancy: Will you go through the whole 20?

Wendy: I do. Yes, I do, and beyond.

Nancy: That’s amazing. How do you do it? Do you read them, or do you know them by heart?

Wendy: The first one, is I pray for their salvation. I pray for the ones who have already been saved, that they would continue in that, and that they would show the fruit of that. The ones that haven’t yet, that they will, at an early age start serving the Lord, and know Who He is, personally.

Then I also pray for, going down the list, some things that really pop into my mind, is that they’re protected from evil. Because we are in a huge spiritual battle right now in our world. It's not hidden as much as it was. Culture is always giving us messages through the media, through movies, and music, and books. I want to make sure that their hearts are filtering all that out.

I pray that they would find the right mate. And then, once they find the mate, that they would both be able to be better together for the Lord. That they would continue in that, in their own home, to raise their children in the ways of the Lord.

I pray for them to . . . Now my mind’s going blank! [laughter]

Nancy: I think that is so wonderful, Wendy. If you’re on Instagram, they can find it there somewhere, can they?

Wendy: Yes, it’s on my account on the page.

Nancy: But if you’re not on Instagram, because I know a lot of you aren’t, I’m going to get Wendy to email it to me. Then you can always email into me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. I’ll send you her 20 points.

I also have a list, too. I actually have 23 points on mine. I was looking at your list today and noticed that a lot of them are very, very similar. It seems as though all those cries we have as mothers seem to be the same.

So, OK, Wendy’s got a list, and I’ve got a list. You can write in for Wendy’s list. You can write in for my list. I actually had my list for many years. Just recently (I actually had Scriptures beside each point, too) I also did one copy with all the Scriptures written out so that you don’t have to look them up.

Of course, that takes a long, long time. I could never get through that in one day. But what you can do is you can take maybe one, only one point, for a day. Or a couple, and look up the Scriptures, and pray those Scriptures over your children.

There’s something very powerful about praying the Word. The Word is alive and active. It’s God’s living Word, and we can pray it back to the Father.

Yes, lovely ladies, you can write in for Wendy’s list. If you want to have one with Scriptures as well, you can write in for mine. You can write in for both. You can get everything you can get, because I think that’s great. Get everything you can get!

Of course, then you can make your own list. Maybe out of these, you’ll find that you’ll make your own very personalized list. But I do think it is very good to have a list, because, as you say, you forget. We’re talking, and we forget. I can’t remember everything that’s on my list right now. But then, that’s why I’ve got a list! So, I’ve got it there.

I would encourage you. You can use our lists, but you could even make a personalized one yourself. I do believe it’s the responsibility of parents to pray for their children. Because if we’re not praying, who else will? Maybe grandparents, but then, grandparents go on to be with the Lord, and then we’re the only ones left.

That’s the case with me now. My husband comes from a wonderful praying family. His great-great-grandmother was a mighty intercessor, who not only prayed for the family and people around her, but she prayed for the coming generations. They believe that their family of nine children, who are all serving the Lord, only happened because of the prayers of this great-great-grandmother who prayed for coming generations.

Then the grandparents pray, but they have gone too. On my side of the family, my parents prayed. They prayed for their grandchildren, our children. But they’re gone. They’re with the Lord. So, it’s up to Colin and me. We’re the last ones left to be praying over this family—children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and generations to come. It’s so powerful. I encourage you in that.

Well, time is gone. So, let’s pray, shall we?

“Lord, we thank You. It’s such a joy to be talking about family together. Lord, this is where our hearts are. I know every precious family who are listening, mothers, and young people, Lord, it’s because we love family.

“I pray, Lord, that You will put in every heart a longing, and a desire, and a passion to pray. To pray for their families, to pray for their children and grandchildren, and the coming generations. Lord, to pray for our nation. Let’s become, Lord God, praying families. I ask it in the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell * www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Here are the Prayer lists for you.

PRAYER LINKS:

WENDY SHAW’S 20 POINTS FOR PRAYING FOR YOUR CHILDREN:

https://fa15989f-b43a-4c89-aae6-1d95bb78d494.usrfiles.com/ugd/fa1598_f7aa179334234b9c8dff5a69a171da10.pdf

NANCY CAMPBELL’S 23 POINTS FOR PRAYING FOR YOUR CHILDREN:

https://tinyurl.com/HowPray4Children

NANCY’S PRAYER POINTS WITH SCRIPTURES LISTED OUT FOR YOU:

https://tinyurl.com/WhatPray4Children

 

LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 174 –  Is God Faithful to His Word?

Today you will meet Charity Jenkins. Charity had no intention of having a big family, but today she has eight children. What changed? How can you trust God for more than two children? How can you trust God when your husband has no job? How can you trust God when you leave family and friends to move across country? Charity shares the answers to these questions.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies! Well, it’s so great! I have another friend with me today, who I’m going to introduce to you. Her name is Charity, and Charity actually comes from Oregon, but now she’s living in Tennessee. Great to have you here, Charity.

Just the other weekend, Charity and I were together. We actually flew up to Oregon together for the Above Rubies Ladies Retreat in Oregon, which Charity and her friends have been organizing for the last ten years. It’s amazing! Say “Hi,” Charity.

Charity: Hi, everybody!

Nancy: So, she and her friends have been so faithful in organizing the Above Rubies Ladies Retreat up there. We’ve had so many wonderful times. We thought this was going to be the last one. We thought, “Well, everyone will be saying goodbye to one another, because Charity has come to Tennessee with all their family. Her friend Sonya and her husband and family are on their way to Tennessee, when they get here, they’ve already bought a house.

And Pam, who was part of the organizing, they’ve already moved to Tennessee. And Julie is moving to Idaho, aren’t they? So, they’re all clearing out of Oregon, away from all the mandates and lockdowns of Oregon! So many are actually fleeing from these liberal states. Maybe some of you are trying to do the same thing.

Charity and her husband Ken are blessed with eight children. Maybe you could tell us about them from top to bottom.

Charity: OK, well, we have eight kiddos. Ethan is our oldest. He’s 17. Then Belle is our first girl. She’s 15 and a half, almost 16. Then Faith is almost 13. She’ll be 13 in November. Eva is ten, Jubilee is eight, Corban is five, and Mercy is three. And then Isaiah is five months.

Nancy: How wonderful! You are so blessed. And yet, I remember you sharing a testimony many years ago of how you didn’t really even want children! Goodness me! You'll have to tell us; how does this happen? Now, you’re here with eight! Goodness me!

Charity: Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I did not ever plan to have kids at all.

Nancy: Children.

Charity: Children. Sorry, I know. Kids are goats! [laughter] Right? Children. I did not plan to have children. I was a career girl, and I was working my way up the corporate ladder. I was plenty happy to do that. I never planned on having children. I had all my reasons.

Of course, all my reasons, as I look back, were very selfish. They all centered around my convenience and the things I wanted, or whatever. God kind of got ahold of my heart, finally, and I don’t know exactly what prompted it. But I think probably part of it had do with the fact that my mom was sick with cancer. She was not doing well, and I started realizing that my getting into heaven wasn’t going to be based on her love for God. It had to be based on my relationship with Him.

I felt really far away from Him. Even though I had been baptized as a kid – a child, a younger child, sorry. I had not been walking with Christ. I remember heading out to work one morning, and it was a beautiful day. I started praying, which was odd, because I was not in the practice of praying and everything.

I just said, “You know what, Lord, if You want me, You’re going to have to bring me to my knees.” And He did. I have learned to pray more carefully now because He will do those things. Over the course of the next year, year and a half, I got pregnant. My husband and I got pregnant. It was quite the shock.

Of course, I felt like my life was over. I was quite upset about it for about the first three months of the pregnancy. And then, over the course of the full pregnancy, I went from being so upset about it to being determined that I was going to be the best mom that there ever was. I was going to homeschool him, and I was going to stay at home. I was going to do all these things.

It was funny, though, because even in my mind, as I was thinking these things, I think that God probably knew that I needed a bit of a push. Because I was making plans to go back to work after he was born for a short time, so that I could finish up things my way, and then quit when I was ready.

I think I probably knew I wouldn’t have done it. So, He pushed me out. I ended up actually being fired from my job for something that I did not do. I was wrongly accused of something, and it was devastating to me, because I had built for myself a really good reputation, and it all got destroyed, and for something that I didn’t even do. I was so upset about the whole thing.

But God pushed me out, pushed me into the home. I ended up losing my job about two weeks before Ethan was born. It was amazing to see how God worked through the whole thing. He provided for everything that we needed. I mean, there were definitely difficult times. There were times when I had to sell my wedding ring and other jewelry that I had, because I worked in jewelry. I had to sell things that I owned in order to pay for diapers, or baby food, or formula, whatever, things like that.

I LOVE BEING IN MY HOME

So, we definitely went through some very tough times. But, over the course of the years, God was faithful to provide every step of the way. He just kept turning my heart more and more to loving my children, loving being a mother, loving being a wife, loving being in my home and making it a place that was enjoyable, which was not ever the picture that I had. That was just not what I had wanted to do. But now I love it! I look back at my old life and think, “Oh, my word! It was so self-seeking, and so just blah!”

THREE WITNESSES

Nancy: I know. I think that is the testimony of so many women. They come into marriage; they’ve still got their career. Of course, they’ve been brainwashed by our society, and by our education system, that motherhood is way low down on the system. I think they’ve been brainwashed. So, they keep living this kind of life.

But eventually, something happens, and that innate anointing that God has put within us begins to slowly emerge. Well, some push it right down altogether. But for many, it begins to emerge. Because it is so true.

I was thinking about this again this morning, how that God, in His Word, always speaks about two or three witnesses. Jesus Himself spoke about it. Paul spoke about it. Deuteronomy 19:15: “One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any inequity or sin that he commits. By the mouth of two or three witness the matter shall be established.”

Jesus said in Matthew 18:16: “By the mouth of two or three witness, every word may be established.” He quoted from the Old Testament.

And then Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:1: “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” It’s repeated other times, too.

It’s amazing, ladies, that even in motherhood, God has given us, not two, but three witnesses! You see, God wants to establish His truth. Even though we live in a society of delusion, and deception, and brainwashing about motherhood, these witnesses begin to emerge.

OK, what is the first witness? The first witness to us is that God created us physically for the task of mothering. It’s amazing, isn’t it, how that women today are so brainwashed that they hardly even know who they are! Here God created us with a womb, and with breasts, that are for the purpose of bringing forth children and nurturing and mothering them. And yet, they deny who they are actually created to be.

That is unbelievable! That is absolute delusion, because here we are, the womb is our most distinguishing characteristic as a woman. I mean, there are only two types of people in this world, a male, without a womb. That’s a man. And a man with a womb, which is a woman! We are a womb-man.

Then we have breasts, which are to nurse and nourish our little babe. Here we are, created physically for this part. But that’s not enough. I don’t think it’s enough for many women because they’re so brainwashed.

But then God has given us another witness. That is that He has put it innately within us. Not only are we created physically, but we have in us, by divine creation, a nurturing, mothering anointing. That is part of every female. You can’t get away from it. It’s there, even though women may refuse children, they still can’t get away from this nurturing anointing. Because, if they don’t have children, they’ll have a pet.

I remember talking about this to a lady down in Texas once. And she said, “Nancy, that answers my question! I can’t believe it. I live near this community of where all these gay people are living.” She said, “I could never understand why they all had so many dogs! Every time you went past us, it was nothing but yipping dogs!” They had chosen animals to replace children.

Can you believe it? But you see, they could not get away from this nurturing instinct! It is in us! God even created this to reveal who He is, because as female, we are to reveal what God is like. So, the womb, the womb reveals the beautiful mercy and compassion of God.

It’s amazing how we read in the Bible, and we read the word, “womb.” Of course, we go back to the Hebrew. There’s four different words for “womb” in the Hebrew. But you’ll read one word, and it will be talking the literal womb of a woman. The next time you read it, it’s talking about God’s compassion, and His love, and His mercy. So, the womb reveals the mercy of God.

Then, our breasts! Wow! They are not only to physically nurse a baby, but God has put innately in us this nurturing instinct that is there. It’s in every woman, even a woman who doesn’t give birth, who has not had the privilege to give birth, or even to nurse a baby at her breast. She still has this nurturing instinct within her.

You think of great women, I think some of the greatest women, who we think of as mothers, in our past centuries, they were women who never even married or gave birth. We think of Mother Teresa. I mean, yes, Mother Teresa. I mean she mothered more children than most mothers will ever mother because she was releasing that nurturing instinct within her.

We think of Gladys Aylward. She was called “The Small Woman,” that little woman who took all these precious children to safety, over in China. We think of so many other great women. They never gave birth. They never nursed from their breasts, but they had that nurturing instinct within them.

Then, of course, we have the Word of God, our third witness. It’s all there in the Scriptures! So, we haven’t any excuses, have we? Eventually it comes out because it’s there. Yes, it’s this longing to mother is there.

So, you began your mothering journey. OK, I guess there were many things, I mean, OK, you were set to help provide for the family, and now you’re home with these little children. What did you do?

WHAT ABOUT MORE HILDREN?

Charity: There was a lot of sacrificing. There was a lot of making choices, as far as what was necessary, and what was a want. And learning to differentiate between the two. It’s OK for us to not have everything that our little heart desires all the time.

My husband and I had lived a very lavish life prior to children. It was a big shift in thinking for us, reining it in, and learning to live within a budget, things like that. That was huge. But it was, I think it was good training for us, because we’re able to teach our children how, when God talks about being a good steward, He wants us to be wise with the gifts that He has given us. How to use them, not for our own constant satisfaction, or whatever, but to bring glory to His name, and to further the kingdom for Him.

I think that was a big part of it. It took several years, even after our first. We had our first child, and he was so great and easy-going, just such a good baby. Man, we thought we had it down. We thought, “We rock at this parenting thing.” So, we thought we should have a second.

We did, and she was much more of a challenge. She was super-stubborn and just strong-willed. She still is. She's amazing, but she definitely has that strong spirit. I’m sure God chuckled at our pride there.

But then, even through that, we were like, “OK, we’re done. We’ve got our boy. We’ve got our girl. We’re good. That’ll be enough.” And God kept working on my heart. A friend of mine kept challenging me with, “Well, who are you to decide these things? Do you know the future?” And blah, blah, blah, all these things.

I’m like, “Oh, my word! Stop!” Over the course of a year or so, I was very challenged about the whole thing. Studying God’s Word, finally I had to come to the point where I submitted my will to whatever God wanted. It was funny, too, because actually I didn’t. . .

We’re doing a VSS study right now, and we’re studying the book of Matthew. When the angel comes to Mary, and he says, “You’re highly favored by the Lord, and you’re going to have this child, and it’s going to be of the Holy Spirit,” and so on and so forth. Her response was, “Let it be to me as the Lord wishes.” Basically saying, whatever God wants, I’m willing to be His servant.

I had to come to that point where I was willing to say, “OK, Lord, whatever you want is what I will do.” That was really hard. I remember driving home from some people. I worked for these people part-time. I had Ethan, and I had Belle. But on part-time, I would do their bookkeeping for them.

I remember talking to them about this concept of just letting God have control over how many children we have. He was a police officer, and they both were like, I remember his words exactly. He said, “That is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.”

I was shocked, because I always felt like, when I come to an understanding of something that the Bible is telling me, I always assume I’m slow to the game. Like everybody else has already figured this out, and I’m the one who’s finally just getting it.

So, when he said that I was like, “What? What do you mean?” And he was looking at it from the standpoint of a police officer. He was like, “I’ve seen so many children who are in poverty, whose parents do drugs, do this, that, and the other. You can’t tell me that people should just have however many kids that God wants.”

I was like, “Well, hang on a second now.” I had to think this through. I was like, “To look at it the way that you’re looking at it, number one, you would have to be for abortion. I know you’re not for that. I know you would not advocate for these people to go and kill their babies.

“But second of all, you're forgetting that God is the God of the impossible. It doesn’t matter their circumstance. It doesn’t matter where they came from. He can use anybody, and every single life that He has created, He has a purpose for. It’s not up to us to decide which life is more or less valuable, simply because of the circumstances that they come from.”

I remember driving home that day, and that was the day that I decided, “I think I’m on to something here. If there is that much opposition, Satan does not want this kind of a calling to be fulfilled.” I was driving home, and I was crying so hard, praying, and saying, “OK, Lord, whatever You want, I’ll do it. Fine, just take my life.”

And I was crying so hard I could barely see the road. I was also praying that He’d get me home safe! When I got home and talked to my husband . . . actually I prayed about it first for about a day or so. But then I talked to him, and I was like, I just didn’t want to come at him head-first, and be like, “We’re having as many children as God wants!” Because he would have been like, “What are you talking about?”

GOD’S WISDOM OR OUR WISDOM?

Instead, I approached him from a different angle and asked him some questions. I said, “To what extent of your life do you trust God?” He said, “Well, I trust Him completely.” I said, “You need to really think about that.” He’s like, “I do. I trust Him completely.”

I’m like, “OK, well, do you believe that God knows the future, and we do not?” He’s like, “Yeah. . .” I said, “OK, do you believe that He knows what we can handle, and if He gives us something, He’s going to provide for it? He’s not going to give us more than what we can do in His strength. He’s going to always provide for that.”

He thought I was talking about a financial issue that we were having. He was like, he started to say something like, “Well now, wait a--,” and I said, “No, no, no, no. You don’t have any idea where I’m going with this, so just stay on . . .” He was like, “Oh yeah?”

I said, “OK, do you believe God when He says that He is the creator of life, and that children are a blessing from Him?” He’s like, “Yeeaaahh?” He’s starting get a little suspicious now. I said, “OK, well, here’s where I’m at. I believe that just because we know how God creates life does not mean that we all of a sudden have the wisdom to know when He should create it.

I believe that if we’re really truly going to submit our lives to God, we need to be willing to say, ‘Whatever You want for us to do, or have, or whatever. It’s all up to You, and we’re going to lay our life down, and say You take it, and You do what You want. So, however many children you want us to have is what we’ll do.’”

And as much as people would say to me, “Oh, well, if I did that, I’d have a hundred children!” I’m like, “That’s such nonsense!” It’s such ridiculous excuse. But anyway, I said, “God can decide to give us one.” There are a lot of examples in the Bible where He gave somebody one child. That was the one! But it was the one child that He needed them to have to further His kingdom. There is nothing saying we were going to have a whole bunch.

I said, “This is where I’m at. I believe we need that we need to let God take control of this.” I said, “I’m not looking for an answer right now. Just pray about it, study it. Get back to me in a week.”

GOD IS RIGHT!

He did! A week later, it was killing me not to ask him. But I didn’t. I was like, “OK, I said I’d give him a week, and I’ll give him a week.” A week later, I was like, “So, have you thought about it?” He was like, “Yeah.”

I said, “Did you pray about it and study it?” He’s like, “Yeah.” I said, “What did you come to?” He says, “I have decided I don’t like you.” [laughter] I said, “Is it because I’m right?” And he said, “No, because God’s right.”

I was like, “OK, so are we doing this?” And he goes, “Yeah.” So, here we are. That was almost 13 years ago now. It has been amazing to watch how every single baby that He has given us came at, not a convenient time for us at all, but at exactly the time they were supposed to.

And how Ethan, we had just had a baby, and then my husband lost his job and was out of work for two-and-a-half years! I mean, he did odd jobs wherever he could get them, but not a steady, full-time income. And yet, God knew. He gave us that baby, and then He gave us another one in that time period. Every step of the way, He was the One who was faithful to provide.

So, throughout all these years, He has proven His faithfulness. He’s strengthened our faith. He’s helped us to lean on Him, to trust Him more. So now, when things come, that maybe we start to shake our, not shake our faith, but shake our feeling of safety, or whatever, we can look back and say, “Look at all these years that God has been faithful! Why would we doubt that He would continue to be that same God now?” So, it’s been huge.

Nancy: That is the most beautiful testimony, Charity. I think, coming to that place of trusting God, giving, yielding our bodies to Him, because He owns them. He created them. Puts us in a place of learning to trust Him like no other, doesn’t it?

As you said, you see that you can trust Him, and He does come through. That makes you stronger, to trust Him in other things. If we cannot trust Him for the very basic thing of how He created us, well, how can we trust Him at all?

Charity: I’ll say really quickly that the whole thing about trusting Him was a huge deal when we were trying to decide whether or not to move out to Tennessee and leave Oregon. I mean, all of our family and all of our friends are out there. This is huge. We just didn’t pick up and move east, either way. We moved the whole country away from everything that we knew.

Every step of the way, we were praying and asking God, “OK, if this is what You want, these are the doors that have to be opened.” And He would open them. Every step of the way, I’m praying that He’ll close them. And He wasn’t! I’m like, “Well, OK, well, I guess I’ll walk through that door.”

I’d pray for the next door to be closed, and it would just swing wide open. I’m like, “Dang it! OK.” So, we’d walk through that door. Every step, and even as I’m here, and I’m, part of me is homesick and missing my friends and my family. I keep seeing Him opening doors and blessing us here and making it very clear that for whatever purpose, and I don’t even know what it is yet.

For whatever purpose, He has planted us right where He wants us, here. And in the midst of all the crazy that’s happening in the world right now, and in our nation, I can sit and rest, knowing that He’s got it. None of this is taking Him by surprise. He’s not caught off-guard. He's got a plan. He’s making a way for His people.

Even in my study of Matthew, what I was noticing was that Herod, He knew Herod was going to go crazy and kill all the baby boys. He had already made a way for them to go to Egypt and escape it. Then, when it was time for them to come back, He had already made plans. It was foretold thousands of years before, that Jesus would be called a Nazarene. He already knew that Archelaus was going to reign in his father’s place and that he would send His son there.

So, just knowing that He’s not caught off-guard by things, He’s providing.

GOD SEES THE FUTURE

Nancy: No, He’s omniscient. He knows all things. He knows who He’s purposed to bring forth from our wombs. He knows it. It’s so sad, I think, when God’s purposes are actually stopped, because people stop the purposes of God. I often think of that Scripture in Hebrews. It’s talking about how Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek when he came back from the battle. He won the battle, and he meets this guy, Melchizedek, and he pays tithes to him.

But Hebrews tells us that not only he paid tithes, but Levi paid tithes, while he was yet in the loins of Abraham! Now, he was not going to be a son or a grandson, but a great-grandson down the line. Not even a twinkle of thought in Abraham’s brain, but God knew. And God said he, Levi, literally paid tithes, and he wasn’t yet born (Hebrews 7:9, 10)!

It's amazing how God sees, and His plan. It's so incredible. I think too, maybe some of you are, maybe you’re grappling with this whole issue at the moment. “Oh, how can I trust God for another baby? Oh, we can hardly survive now. We’re just making ends meet!” But can I encourage you, lovely ladies, that God doesn’t provide for a baby before He brings this baby to you. No, He provides when He brings the baby. I love that Scripture in Psalm 37:25: “I have been young, and now I am old, but I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his children begging bread.”

LACKED NOTHING

I love those Scriptures over in Deuteronomy 28. That's the blessing chapter. Isn’t it such a wonderful chapter of the Bible? Deuteronomy 28:4: “Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb.” That is the very first blessing God gives! That’s His first blessing. But then it goes on to say: “And the fruit of your ground, and the fruit of your cattle, and the increase of your herds, and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.”

But the amazing thing is that we see all these wonderful blessings, they come after the blessing of the fruit of the womb! They come to provide. Why would God give them? There’s no point in giving them unless He’s giving them to provide for the fruit of the womb. So, that’s the whole point. He blesses the fruit of the womb. Then He blesses all that we need to provide for that fruit of the womb.

Isn’t it so wonderful? God is so good. It's amazing how often you were saying there were times where you hardly knew how you were going to survive. But you did survive! I look back on our lives, and there were times when we didn’t even know where our next cent was coming from, but we survived! Here we are today! I mean, we survived!

We don’t have to have everything we think we need. I was just thinking, as you were talking before, about Nehemiah, chapter nine. He was talking about all that God did for them. Nehemiah 9:21: “Yea, forty years didst Thou sustain them in the wilderness, so that they lacked nothing; their clothes waxed not old, and their feet swelled not.”

But imagine, dear ladies, would you have really loved to be there in that wilderness for forty years? They were just living in tents. They didn’t have any permanent houses. They had to mainly trust God for each day. God miraculously provided them manna that they would go out and gather each day. But there was no shop down the corner. It wasn’t a great variety of food. They couldn’t, if they ran out of milk, just pop down to the corner and get some. No, they had nothing, but He said, well, we think they had nothing. We think they had nothing according to what we’re used to.

But God said they lacked nothing! They lacked nothing. God will always provide what we need. When He gives the fruit of the womb, He will provide for that fruit of the womb. Amen. Have you got any testimonies about that?

Charity: Oh, my goodness. Well, I was, as you were talking, the only thing that I was thinking was that the Bible says that without faith, it is impossible to please God. This life is the only opportunity we have to live by that faith, and to please Him through our faith. Because once we see Him in heaven we’ll be living by sight. It won’t be through faith anymore.

So, this is our opportunity to please Him that way. We take the steps in faith, and we watch and expect for Him to act on our behalf, because He has promised that He will. He is faithful.

Nancy: Amen. And this morning, in my reading of the Word, I was just looking up some of the promises about trusting God. Actually, in my King James version, the word “trust” is used 188 times, about trusting God. But actually, that’s not all of them. Because when I looked up the Hebrew word batach, it actually has about ten other English words that are translated in the Word of God for that same word, “trust.” It’s amazing. So, there’s loads more.

But as we’re closing, I thought I’d give you a few of them, just a few. We never have time for all of them.

If we’re trusting in the Lord, we’ll be rejoicing. Psalm 5:11: “Let those that put their trust in Thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because Thou defendest them: let them also that love Thy Name be joyful in Thee.”

I love Psalm 9:10: “They that know Thy Name will put their trust in Thee: for Thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek Thee.” I think we find it hard to trust the Lord if we don’t know Him. The more we know Him, the more we can trust Him. Then, of course, the more we trust Him, the more we get to know Him. So, seek to know Him, to know Him in His Word.

Psalm 119:42: “I trust in thy Word.” I think this is where we get our trust. I believe this is where I’ve got my trust, is being in the Word, seeing the character of God in the Word, acknowledging that this who He is, and putting all my trust in that attribute of His. But we only know it through the Word. As we put our trust in knowing Who He is, then we actually get to experientially know Him. It’s so wonderful.

Psalm 26:1: “I have trusted in the Lord: therefore, I shall not slide.” I like that, don’t you? Because sometimes we can begin to trust, and whoo, everything around us looks the opposite. We think, “Help, I’m trusting God, and not one thing’s working out! Everything’s falling to pieces around me!”

But we keep trusting. If we keep trusting, and we say, “Oh, Lord, I do trust You! Though You slay me, yet will I trust you” we will not slide.” It’s much the same as Psalm 125:1: “They that trust in the Lord shall be as Mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth forever.”

I think that’s where we need to come to, is putting our trust in God, in His character, in His Word. We will not be moved, no matter what happens, what people say, or what circumstances happen, we will not be moved. And we will not be removed from our trust in His infallible Word and in Who He is. Amen.

Yes, because I guess you’ve had times when you’ve been trusting God, but wow! There are times when you think, “How can I really trust Him in this?”

Charity: When Ken was out of work for two years, I would go into my bathroom, because that was the only place I could go and lock the door and get away. I would be in there on my knees, crying and praying. I was like, “Lord, I do not understand why You have not provided a job for my husband! He wants to work, You created him to work, he’s trying to find a job. What are You doing here?”

I would get so upset and kind of be yelling a little bit at God. It would be those times where He’d kind of smack me upside the head a little bit and say, “Who do you think you are?” I’m like, “Ooh, sorry.” And I’d have to repent and remember that He would remind me of the fact that we had still been able to pay our mortgage, we had still been able to pay all of our bills, we had a refrigerator full of food, my children had clothing, they had beds. There was not a single thing that we lacked.

He would remind me, “I am the One that sustains you. I am the One who is taking care of you.” It is completely, 100%, all Him. It was not us. My husband definitely was seeking work. He was doing all the odd jobs, everything he could do, taking part-time, seasonal, whatever. But it was all by God’s grace. He provided those things, everything. It was all Him. He’s completely trustworthy.

Nancy: Amen. So He was showing you that it wasn’t even Ken who was your provider. But He was your provider.

Oh, and ladies, our time is up! Oh, why does it go so quickly? But can I just encourage you? I know there may be some of you who are still out there in that job you’ve got. And yet, you long to be home. You know this is where you’re meant to be. You don’t know how you can do it.

I want to encourage you to trust God, because this is what you have to do. It’s a big step of faith, and you think, “Oh, I’ve got to wait till I get this done, or we just manage this.” But as you found, Charity, God just plucked you out. You were just wiped from your job. But God provided!

And that’s the thing. I want to encourage you to take that step of faith, because as you do, as you put your trust in God, and you confess your trust in Him, as David did, he confessed his trust in the Lord. He said, “Blessed be the Lord, my strength, the One in Whom I trust. I trust in You, Lord.” Because it’s as you trust Him that you will find Him faithful.

“Oh, Dear Father, we thank You that You are a faithful God. You are a God in Whom we can trust. I pray that You will, Lord, build faith and build trust in every house that’s listening today, that they will know that they can trust You, no matter what.

They can trust you, Lord, to provide. They can trust You to leave their career and come home to be with their children where You want them to be, because You’re a God Who is faithful, and You will never let us down. We thank You, in the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell * www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 

LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 173 –  LOSING A CHILD TO CANCER

Today you will meet Shavona Shaw, married to one of the Imperials (Southern Gospel Quartet). Shavona tells the story of how their little two-year-old son was suddenly taken from them by cancer, and how God has enabled them to walk through this grieving trial with hope and victory.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, LIFE TO THE FULL, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies. Today is going to be a special day. I have another beautiful mother with me today. Her name is Shavona, Shavona Shaw. Can you say “Hi” to the ladies, Shavona?

Shavona: Hi, ladies.

Nancy: Here she is. Well, Shavona has a very special story to tell you. But first of all, we’ll introduce her. Shavona is married to Will. Will belongs to THE IMPERIALS, so if you love SOUTHERN GOSPEL, you’ll be familiar with THE IMPERIALS, that amazing quartet. He has been with them for three years. He used to be with Southern Sounds, so he’s a southern gospel singer, with the most beautiful voice.

We met the Shaws at our Above Rubies Retreat in Panama. In fact, this last August, we had a reunion for all the families who were at the April Panama retreat. It’s such a special retreat, and just getting more popular every year.

Next year coming up, 2022, the dates for our Panama retreat will be April 20^th to the 27^th. So, if you would like to come, you need to check out the website AboveRubies.org, and book in now, because I think it’s just about filled up, or filling up so quickly. You’ll need to get in quick. It’s such a special time.

But at our reunion, oh, it was so beautiful, so special. It was a time, actually, because the families wanted to get together again. So many of them came, just to hang out and yet, every day there was something organized, wasn’t there? It was so incredible. We had a couple of lovely, amazing ladies’ meetings where all the mothers got together. It was so incredible.

On one of those days, we were celebrating your birthday!

Shavona: Yes, it was my 41^st birthday, and my 23^rd wedding anniversary, the same day.

Nancy: Yes, well, we did something that morning that we love to do in our family. Every time we have a birthday celebration, we always have speeches. We did this when our children were growing up and now they do it with their children. Then we just passed it on to so many people, so that it’s become something so many of the families that we know do.

So, that morning, we asked everybody to say something to Shavona. I was amazed. Can you keep a hat on your head? [laughter] After all the things they said to you? And you most probably didn’t know, but I was writing down some of the things that people said to you. I’m always writing things down. I wrote these things down.

I thought, “Oh my, what a testimony to have of your life,” because here’s a few of the things that people said about Shavona. It wasn’t just one person. So many people said the same thing, that they saw sweetness in your life. They saw the beauty of Jesus, and the peace of God upon you. And that you were just gorgeous, and the queen of your family.

It just went on and on like that, what these other ladies saw in you. I think that is so amazing, especially when you’re going to hear Shavona’s story. And that they could say that they saw the sweetness of Jesus and the peace of Jesus all over her. You’ll begin to realize how precious that is when you hear the story.

But we haven’t quite got onto it yet. So, we’ll talk about your family for a little bit. The Lord has blessed you with nine children. You have William, who is the oldest, and he’s already married! Isn’t that amazing? Yes, married, and this was a young marriage. Tell us about it.

Shavona: They met at an Above Rubies Retreat three years ago. Just little teenagers themselves. He was 18, and she was 16. They immediately hit it off. One of the things you say is for the young people to get to meet each other. They did, and I knew, leaving. I told him, “William, wait a few days before you text her. Don’t be bothering her.”

He was like, “Oh, Mom, we’re already texting!” I knew then. I was like, “She’s the one! I know she’s the one!” I could just tell. So, they will be married a year this coming up November.

Nancy: So, she married on her 18^th birthday.

Shavona: Just a few days after her 18^th birthday. Yeah, we’re keeping it young.

Nancy: Well, that is so beautiful. It shouldn’t be unusual to see these lovely young marriages, because they’re biblical. When we read in the Word, we read about “the wife of your youth.” We read the Scripture, “the husband of your youth.” We read about “the children of your youth.” And that’s Bible language.

When we go to the Hebrew, we see that the word for “youth” literally means “juvenile.” it’s teenage years. So that was when they married back in biblical times. But they were ready for marriage because they were prepared for it. They were prepared to take on responsibility of providing. They were prepared to be ready to embrace children.

So, it’s not just the age of the person. It’s the maturity and the preparedness that they have. I know young people who are in their 20’s, mid-20's, maybe late 20’s, and they still are not ready to take on responsibility. I think, maybe, because they haven’t been taught it. We are not taught it in the church. When do you hear messages about getting married and preparing for marriage, when this was normal lifestyle back in Bible days?

It is so beautiful. Of course, you know how I love to see young couples meet at our Above Rubies Retreats. Oh, Colin and I met at a family retreat. We think it’s a great place to meet. When you meet kindred spirits, and there you are, both families are there. Both are kindred spirits. You know, it’s just so beautiful, isn’t it?

Oh, I’m trusting for many, many more beautiful, romances to happen as we have these wonderful family retreats. I think it’s so wonderful. Then you have a bit of the same testimony, don’t you? When did you meet Will?

Shavona: I was 14, and he was 16, in the youth group. I was staying with some friends. I went home that night, and I said, “I’m going to marry him!” My 18^th birthday is when I got married.

Nancy: Isn’t that amazing? And now, another beautiful young marriage. Now, they have the fruit of such a beautiful family life. All the lovely children God has given them. They have, oh well, you can tell us.

Shavona: So, we have William, who’s 21. His wife, Olivia, is 18. Calvin is 19. Tristan is 16. Our only daughter, Mary Taylor, is 14. Then we have Malachi, who’s 12. Josiah, 10. Then we have Wyatt, who is 8, Jedidiah who is 6, and then Ethan, at two.

Nancy: We’re actually going to let Shavona tell the story about Ethan today, their ninth precious little baby. I’m sure, oh goodness me, when a little baby comes into a big family, it’s unbelievable, isn’t it? They have so many mothers and fathers and people wanting to hold them. Such a loved, loved child. Then he was just perfect for most of his time, wasn’t he? Until one day, what happened?

Shavona: Well, we had just got back from a trip to New York. We noticed that he was walking a little bit dizzy acting. I thought, “Oh, he must have an earache.” So, I made an appointment to go the doctor because I thought, “It’s not getting better on its own with natural remedies.” Went into the doctor on March 19, just a couple months after his second birthday.

She looked at him and said, “He doesn’t have an earache.” I thought, “Well, I think she’s wrong,” because he has to. What else would be causing him to be dizzy? She said, “I’d like for him to see a neurologist.” That’s when your heart sinks. It was like, “Whoa. Why so extreme? Why can’t we just try antibiotics or something first?”

She said, “It may be a few weeks to a month before we can get an appointment.” I said, “OK.” Well, we left and went on about our day. A few hours later, she called and said, “There’s this neurologist that has an appointment for tomorrow. I’d like for Ethan to go in and be seen.”

So, I said, “OK, we’ll do this.” Got in, the neurologist looked him over, let him walk, and said, “I want to do an MRI.” This was happening so fast. You’re like, “What? Why?” They did an MRI. We were at Centennial Hospital at Nashville. The MRI came back that he had a four-centimeter tumor on the back of his brain.

Nancy: What was that word again?

Shavona: He had a four-centimeter tumor that they thought was already cancerous.

Nancy: Wow. That would have been so hard to take, so suddenly!

Shavona: Well, that’s right when covid was starting. So, my husband was not even allowed to be there at the appointment with me. I had my daughter, because I thought, “She’s 14. She’s going to go in with me to this appointment really quick, and we’d be back home.”

The results came back. They did the MRI and said that they wanted to do surgery the next morning. I had to call my husband on FaceTime, and he heard over FaceTime that our son had a tumor. So, they allowed him to come up to the hospital. We were being transferred to Vanderbilt. They did surgery the next morning at 9 AM.

Nancy: So, that surgery, how did that go?

Shavona: The doctors did surgery and said it went well. That the tumor came out easily. They were afraid that it was going to be tied into the nervous system. But he said it came out easily, and we were like, “OK, God, thank You! This is great! We’re good to go now.” We had to stay in the hospital for a week because he had the drain tube in. It was brain surgery. It’s a major surgery.

Nancy: So, now that you are in hospital with little Ethan, was any, your husband allowed to come and be with him?

Shavona: They did make an exception and let him stay with us. We were one of the very few that were allowed to do that. But I think they knew it was pretty serious. We were still in denial, I guess, not thinking that it was as bad as it was. So, yeah, he was with me.

Nancy: Oh, that’s so good, because so many faced family members dying without anyone there with them. That was such a terrible time. So, what happened next?

Shavona: After that, they said he would need to go on chemo, a very strong chemo. Matter of fact, not just one, but five of them. They were going to be very hard on his body. As the testing came back, we were waiting on the results. It came back as a cancer called medulloblastoma, which still needed the high-grade chemo.

But we found a doctor that was going to treat us in Texas. We loaded up our RV and took off there. He had good results with treating medulloblastoma. I talked to survivors that had it when they were little and went on his chemo medicine or whatever. They’re grown and doing good and got children and their children are healthy. So, that’s what we did. We took off and went there.

Nancy: So, you were encouraged by that, and believing for the best.

Shavona: Yes, absolutely. We had to have a port put in. There were tons of testing. In between there, they did say, when they did the first MRI, that they thought they saw something in the spine, like a little spot. A little spot, but they wanted to check again.

We had another MRI done in between all of this. It came back that it was in the spine, that it had dropped down. There were also . . .

Nancy: How do these things “drop down”?

Shavona: It’s the way the cancer goes. It starts up in the brain and goes down through the spine and grows there. While all this is going on, while he’s on medicine, and we’re traveling back and forth to Texas, he’s healing, and he’s looking good. His surgery site had healed up.

His right side was a little off from the surgery. When they do something like that, they talked about issues. But through physical therapy and stuff, he was doing better and starting to walk again. We would post videos of him pushing the little walker and using his right arm again. We were really hopeful and believing, “OK, he’s getting better. This is doing good.”

And then we got a call that they had continued testing on his biopsy, and it actually wasn’t medulloblastoma like they thought it was in the beginning. But it was one called ECMR, which is actually a very aggressive brain cancer. There are no survivors of this one.

So, he was diagnosed to be terminal at that point. It was the worst news you can get.

Nancy: Oooh, it would be so . . . You just expect them to get better, don’t you? And to receive that, oh, goodness. How did you cope at that time?

Shavona: Well, the only thing we could do was rely on Jesus. We knew that it was not going to be medicine that helped him. The results were showing that the medicine he was on was not helping in any way.

Nancy: So, did they take him off everything?

Shavona: Yes. At that point, it was only making it harder for him to be attached to medicines and ports and all this stuff. So yeah, we took him off everything and went home. They started talking hospice. We just prayed and asked the Lord.

We did a YouTube video, and a Facebook, and all these, just asking other people to pray with us. We had thousands. We thought, “Lord, just be with us. Help heal him.” We just held onto hope. That’s all you can do when you’re going through something like this.

Other people were worried for me, and thinking, “Is she going to make it? Because what if God doesn’t heal her son?” You can’t listen to stuff like that. Even in the midst of it, you must hold onto hope. You can’t walk through life defeated already.

We said, “No matter what Lord, we’re going to praise You, we’re going to still trust You. But we’re asking that You heal our son.”

Nancy: Yes. Amen. I believe that is exactly the attitude you must have. I think our responsibility is to have hope, to have faith, to trust God, right to the very bitter end and beyond. But it’s God’s responsibility, His sovereign will, what He does.

But we can’t go in despair. We have to always live in faith. It’s the only way, isn’t it, to get through. It’s like those three men in the fire. You know, they said, “OK, we believe that God will deliver us. But even if He does not, we will not bow.” Yes, the Lord must have given you strength for that.

Shavona: Definitely. We were constantly in prayer. But sadly, Ethan did pass on June 11^th. It was 11 weeks from finding out that he had cancer.

Nancy: Wow. Was he, could you communicate with him right up to the end?

Shavona: Basically, yes. It happened so fast. Usually, you have months and months of people, when they’re going through cancer, of slowing down on things. But his was literally just a few days. He was communicating. I have pictures of him sitting up on Sunday, drawing his pictures. We had a good time with him. He slept a lot, but he was still, he was not hurting. So, we’re very thankful for that.

But on Thursday, he went to be with Jesus, just a few days later. He just went to sleep.

Nancy: He didn’t wake up.

Shavona: No. He started having seizures.

Nancy: Oh, my. OK, that was the next step. How did the Lord get you through this?

Shavona: Well, after that, I’m not going to lie and say that it was easy to just get back into church and sing Christian music and praise and worship. It was really hard. There was a lot of songs that we had just clung to and were believing for a miracle.

Then it was actually a testing of our faith. Do we believe that God is real? Do we believe that the Bible is real? Satan was attacking us at every angle, saying it’s something we did in our past that caused our child to have cancer. We were like, “No, Jesus talked about that. And that’s not what it is.” But Satan is really good to attack you at every angle.

Nancy: At the most vulnerable time, yes.

Shavona: When you’re weak and having to rely on the Lord, the only thing you can do is renew yourself in His Word. That’s where we were, just clinging on to Jesus and His Word. We renewed ourselves, and we read the Scriptures.

I still say, a year and a few months later, I wake up every morning, and I say, “Lord, please give me strength,” because it still hurts. It’s probably a hurt I’ll have the rest of my life. That’s something people don’t realize, talking to someone who’s lost a child, or even a close family member.

We have those human attachments. We love them. And so, there’s always pain, but we have to walk in strength. We have to renew ourselves and not give up, not let Satan win. That's what he wants to do. He wants to defeat us and kill and destroy. When we realize that it’s not our fight, that it’s Jesus’ fight, and that He wins this fight, it makes it a little easier.

It renews your hope, in knowing that we’re not left without hope. We have heaven. I am going to get to see Ethan again. Our whole family is going to get to see him, and everybody that’s listening that goes to Heaven with us, is going to get to see him. So many of our other loved ones. That’s made possible because Jesus died for us.

It really has strengthened my faith so much more. It’s made me . . . When I was a teenager, I don’t know how many times I rededicated my life or got saved. I’ve got a teen girl, she’s not my daughter, but she’s getting baptized for her third time, and she’s only like 16.

You know, you feel like you’re constantly asking a lot from Jesus, but He gives it freely. Now, looking back, it means so much more now than it ever did when I was a teenager, just going back and forth, to and fro. I mean, the Bible is true. It’s amazing. I’m so thankful that He’s preparing a place for us.

Nancy: Yes, oh yes. It’s lovely to hear how you’re finding each day you still have to come to the Lord for His strength and His comfort. Because it doesn’t suddenly go away, does it? It’s like when you have a loved one taken from you. It’s like it’s ripped out of your very heart. You must grieve. I mean, grieving is very important. You’ve got to go through that grieving time.

I guess people go through it in different ways. Some people want to scream and yell. But you have to go through it. In Bible times, they didn’t grieve for a day. They grieved, they had great mourning times. That grief was never quite taken away, but God, as we grieve . . .

I think there’s two ways you can grieve. One is to grieve in despair, or to grieve as you’ve been talking about, Shavona, to grieve in hope. You see, we can grieve in hope. Yes, we grieve the loss, but we grieve in hope. We allow God to comfort us. You can also go through grieving and let it be pushing God out. Because “OK, I just want to go through all this because I'm still grieving.”

Or we can let God come in and comfort. Yes, and I can see that you’ve done that, because we get back to that morning when all the ladies were there, and saying how they saw the joy of Jesus, and His peace, and His sweetness on your face.

I mean, you are coming out of this trial without the smell of fire upon you. Like when those three men came out of the fire, the Bible says there wasn’t even the smell of fire upon them. I mean, some people come through trials, and wow, the smell is still there. They’re still hurting. Of course, you’re still hurting, but they’re hurting in despair and bitterness.

Or you can still feel that terrible ache, but your hope is strong in Jesus. Yes. And that’s when you come forth without the smell upon you.

What about the children? How did they go through, Shavona?

Shavona: They’re doing a lot better. Here we’re talking about grieving, and the first Scripture we went to was Job. You look at how they grieve in the Bible. They would tear their clothes and wear ashes. I thought, “I remember reading that when I was younger, thinking, wow, that’s a bit extreme.” But then, you don’t realize it until you walk through it. I can totally see how I could end up doing something like that with the grief.

But the children are doing a lot better. They're still really sad some days. There’s just a lot of memories. We do stuff together as a family, and the children will say, “Ethan would like this.” Or “Ethan would like that.” I’m like, “I guess he would.”

We go into Walmart, and my six-year-old goes, “Oh, that’s an outfit that Ethan would like to wear.” I said, “Yes, but he doesn’t need clothes. He’s good in heaven.” We just talk about him like he’s still with us because his spirit is alive.

I had to go to a friend right after Ethan passed, because I knew I was going to need help from somebody who has been through something like this. I have a friend, an older lady, and years ago, she lost six of her children in a car explosion. Her baby was just six weeks old.

I had to go to her, and I was like, “How do I get through this?” I mean, I know what I’m supposed to do. I know I’m supposed to rely on Jesus and the Scriptures, but I’m like, “You’re weak,” and I needed her help.

She told me the one thing that really helped her was to not feel like it’s all on us. Like God is forsaking us, or not to feel self-pity. And I thought, at first, I was like, “How can I not feel self-pity? This is me, and it doesn’t happen to everybody.” But then you look back, and I let that strengthen myself.

I went to Jesus, and I was like, “I can’t put You back up on that cross and keep feeling sorry for myself every single day.” Because that’s kind of what you do, you feel sorry for yourself. But the Scriptures have helped so much, just renewed my faith.

I work with teen girls now, in our church group. I just want to tell them about Jesus. And I'm like, “Satan, you have taken so much from me. And I am going to steal back from you. I am going to help win souls for Jesus.”

And that’s what we’ve got to turn our anger and our grief into, is working for the Lord, and being His disciple. I am on a mission now. If anything, Satan thought he was going to destroy me, and while it hurts, he’s not destroyed me though.

Nancy: Amen! Oh, and that dear friend of yours, she obviously is one who also came through eventually without the smell upon her. Wow, what a . . . Oh, goodness me, how could someone lose six children at once? That’s just beyond it, isn’t it?

But I love your sharing of how Ethan is still part of you all and the children talk about him. That is so healthy. So healthy. I think sometimes it happens in families and they try to not talk about it. But no, it’s so healthy, isn’t it, to talk about him, because he is alive!

He is alive, and you know, bringing little Ethan into the world was never, ever, ever a waste. You brought into the world a precious child that will affect your lives and your children forever. But you brought a child in for eternity, who you go to live with for eternity. It’s an eternal thing. It was a powerful thing. It’s so wonderful your children know he's alive and they’re going to enjoy him forever. Oh, what hope we have in Christ! It’s so amazing, isn’t it?

Shavona: Yeah. An old saying is, “It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.” Looking back, I would do it a hundred times over again. I mean, we do have eternity with him, and he’s there. So, it’s worth it.

Nancy: Amen! And you would never have missed those two beautiful years with this precious little boy. I mean, oh, it’s so added to your life. I loved this beautiful Scripture in 2 Corinthians. I’m sure it was so comforting to you. I love to read it, just because I know so many of you who are listening, you’ve been through similar heartaches and losses. You’re with Shavona as she’s been sharing.

I want to give you this Scripture. We all need to be reminded.

2 Corinthians 1:3-7: “Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercy, and the God of all comfort.” Isn’t that beautiful? He doesn’t only give some comfort, or a little bit of comfort to tide us over. But it’s ALL comfort. I love the Scriptures. ALL COMFORT. Isn’t that amazing?

In fact, I think I should read this. That's King James. I’d love to read it to you from the Passion Translation, because actually, as you read this through, it’s bringing out the true understanding of the Greek words. It says: “All praises belong to God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for He is the Father of tender mercy, and the God of endless comfort. He always comes alongside us, to comfort us in every suffering, so that we can come alongside those who are in any painful trial.”

And I’m reading it from that translation because it’s bringing out that word that is used there for “comfort,” paraklesis, which comes from paraclete, which speaks of the Holy Spirit who comes alongside us, to comfort us. It brings that out here. So that He comes alongside us, to comfort us. Isn’t that beautiful?

And it goes on, “We bring them this same comfort that God has brought about on us. And just as we experience the abundance of Christ’s own sufferings, even more of God’s comfort will cascade upon us through our union with Christ. If troubles weigh us down, that just means that we will receive even more comfort, to pass on to you, for your deliverance. For the comfort pouring into us empowers us to bring comfort to you. And with this comfort upholding you, you can endure victoriously the same suffering that we experience. Now our hope for you is unshakeable, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in God’s comforting strength.” Isn’t that amazing?

Now, I want to count how many times the word “comfort” comes in that little passage. So, let’s go here. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine times God uses this word “comfort.” “His endless comfort,” “the God of all comfort,” and then in verse five, where we are to abound, “abounding in comfort.” And that word, ladies, can you believe it, is that word that I’m always telling you about. It’s perisseuo, that word that means “to be super-abounding, abundant, more than is necessary, above and beyond, to exceed.”

Now here this word comes again. We find it right throughout the New Testament. Here we find it in the context of comfort. God’s comfort is even beyond the normal. It’s abundant. It’s super-abounding. So that is available to us. Sometimes we don’t always receive it. We must open our hearts to receive this comfort. As we open our hearts, He will pour in this comfort that He wants to give us. Then we can comfort others. Like I think that’s what you are doing now, you and Will. You’re comforting so many people.

Shavona: That Scripture is amazing. I’m going to have to hang that on my wall and memorize every word. That’s great. Yes, absolutely. That’s what we’ve been called to do. And that’s what you’ve been doing, Nancy. You’ve helped so many people, and I’m thankful for you in my life. I’m sure everybody listening to this is. It’s amazing that you spend your whole life helping others. That’s great.

Nancy: Yes, but I’m just so blessed as I see you now, pouring out your life for others. You proved God’s comfort, and you proved He’s real, and you’re sharing that with others. Thank you for sharing this beautiful story with us. Let’s pray.

“Father, we thank You that You are faithful. Thank You that You’ve been so faithful to Will and Shavona and their precious children. Thank You that You show forth Your faithfulness each new day.

“Lord God, I think of precious mothers listening, Lord, who’ve been through similar experiences. I pray, Father, that they will also know and experience Your endless. It’s not just for one day, Lord God, because we keep, oh God, sometimes the overwhelmingness and the ache of loss can come over us. But Lord, You come again, because Your comfort is endless. It is abounding.

“We thank You, Father, and I pray that Your comfort will pour out on all those who are aching, Lord, for the loss of loved ones. Bless them and encourage them this day. Lord God, raise them up, Lord, to be comforters of others. I pray in the precious Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell * www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 

FLORIDA FAMILY RETREATS IN 2022 – NEED TO BOOK NOW!

There are two amazing Above Rubies events in the Gulf Coast area in 2022. Go to this website to check out the details and to register: https://aboverubiesgulfcoast.com/

April 2022 Annual Gulf Coast Family Retreat

April 21-24 (Conference Only) or

April 20-27, 2022 (Full Week)

Families have the option of coming for the official conference or you may stay the full week for unofficial and informal hangouts, sharing, prayer and evangelism. We highly recommend coming for the full week as the conference schedule is packed tight with activities (see example schedule). Having a few extra days to relax and enjoy getting to know people is everyone’s favorite part of the week!

Location: https://christiancamp.com/

The 2nd Annual Family Reunion

August 10-17 2022