LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 268: It’s Time to Elevate the Table, Part 1

Do you know where tables originated? My husband Colin and I talk about the power of the table in raising your children. Your children will rise to the value you put upon your table. How you portray the table will determine the behavior of your children.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to the Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, everyone! Today my husband is back with me. We’re going to continue our series, “Elevating the Home and Family.” We have talked in a few other podcasts in between as I have had guests staying with me, but we’re back on this one today. We’re going to talk about elevating the table.

The table, I believe, is a very important piece of furniture in our homes. I think it is something we do need to elevate, to lift up to a higher place. We can often take the table in our kitchen or dining room for granted. We don’t see its full purpose. I think that is so important.

Well, let’s begin talking about tables. I think we should first know where they originated. Do you know where they originated? I wonder . . .

Do you think you’ve got the right answer? Maybe you’re saying, “Well, in the Bible!”

That’s true. We read about tables way back in Exodus. In fact, in Exodus 25:23 we read where God said to Moses, “Thou shalt also make a table of shittim wood.” That was the table of showbread. That is the very first time the word “table” is mentioned in the Bible. I’m sure they had tables before then to eat their meals because they’d been eating for a long time before this Scripture came.

This is the first time we actually read about a table, but this is not where they originated. It originated somewhere far back from even the Bible. Maybe I’ll have to tell you . . .

Tables originated in heaven! God thought of tables before we ever thought of them, before we ever had them on earth. They were in God’s heavenly kingdom. We know this because we can read about them.

I’ll just read you one or two Scriptures. Go over to the New Testament. Luke 14:15: “And when one of them that sat at meat,” that means ‘sat at the table,’ “with Him heard these things, He said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.”

We go to Matthew 8:11, and Jesus is speaking. He says: “I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.” When it says: “sit down,” it means ‘sit at the table.’

Again, we go over to Luke 22:30. We read where Jesus is talking to his disciples. He said: “That ye may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom.” Jesus was talking about His kingdom in heaven, His heavenly kingdom, and He said: “One day, I’m going to have you sitting around the table and we will talk together. Not just here on earth but in My heavenly kingdom.”

So, precious ladies, I want you to get a vision. Tables are heavenly. God has tables in His kingdom. They’re part of His kingdom. We need to lift up our eyes and see our table in a greater way than we do. Not just thinking of it as somewhere we plonk some stuff or poke a bit of food on. Everybody just eats and then runs. No, the table is very, very important.

Colin: Can I say something on this point?

Nancy: Yes, Darling, yes! You are with me! You speak!

Colin: I do think that it’s so easy these days for people to change their ways, so much so that the table is hardly even used. Some homes don’t even have a table. People just come in and go to the refrigerator and grab whatever they need and rush off to do whatever they’re doing in their bedroom, or wherever they might be sitting, with their computers and so on.

They lack the blessedness of a table, of getting around the table with your family. Everything is getting lost. I don’t think that’s to our good, that it’s getting lost. I think it’s to the detriment of family life and the way God intended it to be for fellowship. How can you have fellowship if you’re not sitting around the table? In that sense, the richness of being at the table.

Nancy: Oh, yes! Also, another Scripture about the heavenly table. We go to Revelation, of course. What does it say there? It talks about the marriage supper of the Lamb in Revelation 19:9: “Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.”

You can’t have a great feast . . . this is talking about a great feast . . . it will be the greatest feast of all feasts that has ever been prepared. There have been weddings where people love to make a great feast. Some are more lavish than others, but this will be the most lavish feast that has ever been in the history of this world. We won’t just hang around. We’ll be sitting at tables, because we know, as we read through the Word of God, that God always talks about sitting to eat.

To sit down to eat is a very important thing to understand. We’re not meant to eat on the run! Or just eat as we’re continuing our housework or eat as we’re running out the door to get somewhere. No, God intends us to sit down to eat. Science also proves that you get far more from your food if you sit down and take time to eat. That’s a hard thing in this rushed world, this busy world. But it’s a habit we need to get into.

In fact, if you would check out, and you can go to each of the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Everyone tells the story of Jesus feeding the five thousand. Everyone tells this little bit. It says: “Jesus commanded His disciples to command the people to sit down.”

Jesus did not break the bread and thank His Father, and give them this bread, and feed this multitude until everyone was sitting down. There were five thousand men, plus women and children. That was a big company. I think that would have been quite a task for the disciples. That’s why Jesus said: “I’m commanding you to do this.” Then He said, “And you command the people that they sit down.” It was a command. We read that in all the gospels.

Colin: Can I say something on that point? Because some people have such resistance to that kind of authority. When leadership, even in churches say, “Can we please stand?” they don’t want to stand. “I’ll stand if I feel like it.” Or “Can we now sit down?” People say, “I don’t know whether I want to sit down.”

But God really knows what’s good for us. We’re more relaxed when we’re sitting down. I think it’s better for our health, as you were saying. It’s scientifically proven that it’s much, much better for our health to assimilate food when we’re resting and sitting down.

Nancy: And first, that which is natural, then that which is spiritual. It is the same. We might eat a bit of food, but we’re really not gaining all the nutrients unless we sit. Food is not just to feed our body. Food is always likened together with fellowship. We’re meant to fellowship as we are eating.

But it’s the same in the spiritual. When we read about Mary, do you remember when the Bible says that “Mary sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His words.” She wasn’t just passing by. “Oh, I wonder what Jesus was saying there,” and grabbed a little bit. No, she sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His words. She really got something.

That’s true, even in our own Bible reading where we’re feeding our souls. It’s the same thing. Sometimes we’re so in a hurry. “Oh, I have to read my Bible!” Grab a couple of verses. Sometimes, because of circumstances, that’s all we can get. I know, lovely mothers who are listening, oh, when you’ve got all your little darlings around you, and they’re all needing you at once, this is a season where you don’t have that same time to just sit at Jesus’ feet and listen to His words.

I know. That was my own experience. Before I was married, I had given my life to seek the Lord. I used to spend about three hours each day, in the morning, waiting on the Lord, in the Word, and in prayer, before I went out to work. I was teaching at the time.

But then I got married, and my first baby came along. Seventeen months later, two babies came along! I had twins unexpectedly. And suddenly, I had three babies in seventeen months! Do you think I had time to get up and spend three hours waiting on the Lord? I did not! And I wondered what had happened to me! “Help! I can’t do this like I used to!”

I had to put my Bible on the windowsill where I was preparing food or doing the dishes. I could just get little snippets. I’d put it at Proverbs, where you can get one verse, and you can take it to your heart. Or at the Psalms. I had a Bible in the bathroom, or where I was nursing the babies. But that was a season of being able to get what I could just in those little moments. God understands these seasons. But when you do have more time to really hear the Lord you do need to be sitting at His feet.

Talking about elevating the table, I believe we need to make the table a very, very important place in our homes because it is a heavenly piece of furniture.

Then we read the Lord’s Prayer. Jesus told them how to pray. “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven.”

We go over to the account in Luke, where Jesus was telling them how they should pray. Luke 11:2: “Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done. As in heaven, so in earth.” It says it a little more simply there: “As in heaven, so in earth.” OK, if God has tables in heaven, well, we also have them on earth. But let’s see them as a heavenly piece of furniture. Let’s elevate them to where God has elevated them.

I do believe the value that we set upon the table is how our children will see it. If it’s time for supper and we’ve cooked something and we just put it down on the table, maybe a naked table (I call a table that doesn’t have a tablecloth, I call it “a naked table.”) People say, “Oh, goodness me! How do you expect me to put a tablecloth on? Help! I’ve got enough work to do!”

Well, you don’t even have to put a cloth tablecloth on your table when you have little children. You’ll be able to do that when they get older. There are seasons in life. But you can put a plastic tablecloth on. Today you can buy beautiful plastic tablecloths that look real. They look like a real tablecloth. It does something.

During the day, you’ve maybe had a naked table, or it’s a table filled with books about homeschooling. In the day, I usually have a runner on my table, and a vase of flowers, or something like that. I love something on the table. But when it comes to suppertime, we take that off, and we put on a tablecloth, because it is now mealtime.

I want every meal to be special. If we don’t make it special, our children won’t find it special. They’ll just come, eat, and run. But if you make it special, we put a tablecloth on (I will, in my transcript, I will give you a link where you can buy these lovely, checkered tablecloths. They’re just plastic, but they look so real). All you do is wipe them down. You’ve got to wipe down your naked table anyway. So, why not make that little extra, to make it beautiful?

You can put a candle if you want to. You don’t have to do that every time, but every now and then. Of course, as your children are getting a little older, even four and five-year-olds can learn to set a table correctly. You show them how to set the table. They love to do it. And you inspire them how to make it beautiful and special.

You can get them to go outside and see what they can find. Maybe there are some wildflowers that they can find, and they can bring them in, and put them in a little vase. I think you say, “vase,” but Down Under we say “v-ah-se.” They can do that. Or maybe there’s something special. They find a very interesting piece of rock or something, and they bring it in, and put it on the table. Just in the middle, something to talk about when you’re at the table. But to make it special.

And then, even once a week, do something more special. You can even write little place names for your children. I often did this throughout the years. I would take time to think about it, because I wouldn’t only write their names. I would write something to go with it. OK, so say their name is “Barry.” Underneath that, I would put, “Bold for God.” Something starting with the same letter as their name. Just inspiring them.

Or sometimes I would spend more time and write a little rhyming couplet about them. Sometimes I’d do four lines. I’d put it there on their plate, and it would be something special for them, something that they realized they are special. You will find, when you make your table special, you make it look lovely, you will find that the children’s behavior changes. They will rise to the value you put on your table!

Colin: It takes me back to Palmerston North New Zealand.

Nancy: Yes, mainly where we were raising our children.

Colin: We were raising our young children there. I was pastoring a church and we were invited out. I think you came with me on this particular day. We went out to visit these people who were fairly new to the church. They’d just come from a historical church. They were university graduates. They were very well . . . they had brilliant minds, but they had a real dedication to God. They had been involved strongly in an Anglican, which is an Episcopalian church.

They showed us through their home. It was so interesting to see. They had twelve children, I think, ranging right down from teenagers to little babies. They took us into the living room where they had the table where they all sat down. The father had taken the initiative, I think, to make the whole room feel like a church. They had church windows in (I guess because they came from historical backgrounds). They had these church windows, but on the table, it was a big table to sit everybody down.

They had what we called Down Under “pokerwork,” because you put a steel poker into the fire, and you heat it up. You heat the poker, and then you poke the fire with it, of course. It’s a piece of steel, long steel. Then you heat it up and you could write in the wood.

Nancy: What do you call that here in America? Poker?

Colin: Writing in the wood, they wrote all these verses of Scripture, wonderful verses, all over the table. The children couldn’t even sit down at the table without observing Scriptures around where they sat. I thought it was very thoughtful of them.

They were raising these children for God, and they were using the table as a way of getting the Word of God through to them. No wonder the Scripture says: “You write it on your walls, you write it above your doorposts, and you write the Scriptures down.” The table is a good place to write it.

Nancy: Actually, it was when I met that family, that was when I started baking our own homemade bread. In fact, I think I had done a bit of bread baking before then. But this beautiful mother said something to me, and I took hold of it. She said, “Nancy, I noticed a difference in the health of all my children, not when I started baking bread, but when I stared grinding the wheat, and baking the bread from the freshly ground wheat.” I thought, “Wow! That’s a pretty good testimony, so I think I’m going to do it!”

Well, back in those days, you just couldn’t go and buy a grinder like you can today. Just get on the internet, and you can get a wonderful grinder, a Wonder Mill, you can have on your counter. I have one now. It sits on my counter every day. I never take it off because I’m always using it.

But back then, there were none of those lovely little grinders. I had to search and search. Then I found this farmer. He had this great big contraption that was about as high as this roof! He used it for grinding food for his pigs. I said, “Hey, can I come out every two weeks and grind my grain for my bread, and use your machine?”

“Yes, yes, you can do that.” So, I wasn’t doing it every time, but at least every two weeks I went out and ground my grain for my bread. Then you found an old . . .

Colin: I found an old commercial coffee grinder. I used that for a long time.

Nancy: And then eventually we got this wonderful stone-ground grinder. That was amazing, wasn’t it? Then, of course, we traveled to Australia and lived there for ten years and came here. Now, of course, I use these WonderMills. They’re great. But that was when I first started baking my bread, meeting that wonderful family.

Colin: Obviously, they had seen the importance of being around the table. In fact, back in those days, everybody sat around the table. There was not a home where there wasn’t a kitchen table. People used to use them. They did use them at least three times a day. I don’t know why we have drifted.

Nancy: Well, I think a lot of this happened when TV came in. People began to sit around the TV, and they began to forget about the kitchen table, or the dining room table. But I think that we have to get a vision to see what it really is. I see the table as a place where we not only feed our children food. That’s how we mostly think. “Oh, I’ve got to feed the family and sit down at the table.”

No. The table is not just to feed the food for their bodies. It is a place to feed the body, the soul, and the spirit. Now lovely ladies, if you can get ahold of that, it will change your whole life. It will change your family life. It will give you a vision beyond what you had before, because you’re not only going to cook a meal. This is the beginning, of course. You are going to feed their bodies.

Also, we need to get a vision for that where you’re not going to feed them any old thing. I believe that mothers have a responsibility to research and to know what is the best food, and the healthiest and most wholesome food to feed their families. We have a responsibility. God gave us these children and we can’t put down their throats all this junk, and chemicals, and devitalized food that’s around today.

When you go to the supermarket, what aisles do you walk down? I don’t even walk down an aisle where they have all those packages. I don’t even walk down an aisle where they have all those tins of stuff. No, I go to where they have the produce, and maybe one or two other things, and that’s it. I don’t live on any devitalized packaged junk! That’s not what we’re meant to feed our families. We’ve got to get back to how God wants to feed our families.

Colin: It’s pretty hard to change once you’ve fed them the “junk,” [laughter] as you say.

Nancy: Oh, yes, maybe that’s true. Have I really? I don’t think I’ve really managed yet to get your thinking onto my thinking towards food. [laughter]

Colin: Well, you have, generally speaking, especially when I’m home. But it is hard to get children back if they’ve been used to Chuckie Cheese, and McDonald’s, and everything.

Nancy: But actually, you didn’t get brought up on fast food. But back then it was normal. Everybody baked with white flour and white sugar. Everything was filled with that.

Colin: And brown rice. We were brought up on white rice. But now we have discovered the importance of brown rice. But it’s hard for people to change. Especially for children. Children will resist like anything, so we have to be very careful about, right from the beginning, starting them on very healthy food at the table.

Nancy: I often see mothers giving their children all this junk! And all these little packaged junk in these little, wee fast-food snack things that they can buy. Children are living on them. I say to the mother, “Why are you giving them this?” “Oh, well, that’s what they love!”

But if you had never bought it and you didn’t ever have it in your house, they wouldn’t even know it existed! Mothers are responsible. You don’t have to buy the junk, and your children will eat what’s in your house, or what you give them.

Colin: They develop that desire. Their taste buds go to what they’ve been brought up on.

Nancy: That’s so true. Yes, Yes. Anyway, you are going to feed them a wholesome meal. It does take time. I find to prepare a meal takes time and thought, because I want to prepare a meal that’s nutritious, but also looks nice, and is something that people are going to want to eat. It has wonderful flavors and aromas. That’s why I love to cook with lots of spices. In our home, we like a lot of hot food, spicy food, because we don’t like bland food very much. Some people like bland food.

So, we’re preparing wholesome food, but that is only the beginning. We also have to feed their souls. We have to begin to engage our children in discussion, heart-to-heart fellowship, and talking with them. If you come to a table . . .  now this is what I have found, ladies. I have found that if I come to the table . . . I’ve been preparing the food, and we sit down, and I haven’t thought of a question, or I haven’t thought of a subject to bring to the table that we can discuss, I often find the conversation goes nowhere. Nobody really says anything.

Colin: It usually goes very negative.

Nancy: It goes negative.

Colin: Argumentative. Children quarrel and fight.

Nancy: The table can be bedlam. It is true, also, that you’re training at the table. But there is something wonderful about bringing something to the table to discuss. A question, like if you have little wee children, you can ask a question like, “Now children, what was the best thing you did today?” And you get each one of your little children to talk about it. They also want to hear from Mommy and Daddy. We have to tell them what was the best thing that we did today.

Or you could say, “What was the funniest thing?” You’re teaching them to learn how to engage in conversation at the table instead of just going nowhere with it. Or, as they get older, you’re going to bring a subject to the table to discuss, or another question that will really get them thinking.

I actually do have a list of questions that often, when my brain goes blank, and I can’t think, I will refer to it. I do have it on my webpage, under The Family Table. You can check it out there. But here are just one or two of some of the questions we would ask our children. This is one. We used this question quite often because they loved it. “If you were given a million dollars, how would you spend it?” Oh, they loved to talk about that!

Here’s another one: “If you had all the money in the world, and you could travel to any country you like, which one would you choose, and why?” Those are just fun discussions. But then you can ask more political questions. We’re a pretty political family. Or you can ask Bible questions about a Scripture. Perhaps, “Children, Romans 3:4 says: “Let God be true and every man a liar.” What do you think that means?”

You will go round each person, making sure each person gets to share. Sometimes at the beginning they may not know what to say, but they’re going to learn how to think, and how to speak out what they feel, and what they understand. You can do that with any Scripture. You can bring it and ask them what they feel it means.

Oh, a good one too, especially for homeschoolers, is, “OK, children, I want each one of you tonight to tell us something new you have learned today.” That’s a good question. It’s a good question also for Mom and Dad, because we also have to have our say. We also should be learning something new every day.

As they’re homeschooling, if they come to the table, and “OK, what’s new? What did you learn that’s new today?” If nobody has anything to say, well, what were you doing? Sometimes we can spend our days making our children get through all their curriculums, and making sure they finish them. At the end of them, they haven’t even learned anything! Sometimes it’s better to learn one thing than trying to read a whole lot of stuff you’re never going to remember! That’s a good one. That checks out how you’re going with your homeschooling.

Colin: Here’s another good question to ask. I don’t know whether we did, but I was thinking of a family down in Australia that we knew who were very good servants. They would go to help people a lot. They would take their children to help. There was one older lady there. Anyway, this lady was in great need. She was a very frail person. They used to help her. But the good question would be, “Who did you help today?”

Nancy: Yes, that’s a good one, a very good one. It may have even been their brother or their sister who needed help. Sometimes they may not bother with that. But that is important. It doesn’t always have to be someone outside the home. It can be someone inside the home. Yes, that’s a good question. But you can find many more if you go to the website.

FACE TO FACE TABLE FELLOWSHIP

But we do need to remember that the table is face-to-face table fellowship. That’s why we sit around a table. Many, many families are often caught up with sports. Sadly, I think it’s a ploy of the enemy that so many sports practices and things like this are often at that time when usually mothers should be home preparing the meal. Sadly, they’re all out in the car.

Then there’s hardly time to get home to prepare the meal. “OK, just let’s grab something on the way home.” So, children are eating, looking at the head or the neck of someone in front of them in the car. That is not how we’re meant to eat. We are meant to eat facing one another. Face-to-face table fellowship. Even God loves face-to-face.

We were reading this morning in our family devotions in Exodus 33:11: “And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.”

I think of John, the apostle John, and how he was thinking of many of his dear friends, dear saints, and how he longed to be with them.

2 John 1:12: “Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.” He was writing there to the elect lady.

Then over in 3 John, he was writing to the well-beloved Gaius. 3 John 1:14: “But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face.”

FOOD AND FELLOWSHIP ARE TWINS

There is something powerful about face-to-face fellowship, and food and fellowship are twins. They go together. As we are coming to the end of this session, we’ll have to do another session, because we haven’t even got yet to the whole table, because we’re going to feed the body, feed the soul, feed the spirit. So, next week we will talk about feeding the spirit.

But I want to end with this Scripture in Psalm 128:3. Psalm 127 and Psalm 128 are family psalms. God gives His picture, His plan for the family. Psalm 128:3: “Thy wife is like a fruitful vine within thine home.” Some translations say: (In the heart of thy home). “Thy children, like olive plants, all around your table.”

Isn’t it interesting that this is the picture that God paints, of a family that’s blessed of the Lord. God sees this. All around the table together. They’re not sitting in front of the TV. They’re not, someone’s coming to get their meal, and then someone comes later and gets theirs, having it at different times. No, they’re together.

THE TABLE IS TOGETHERNESS

The table is togetherness. It brings the family together. As we were raising our children, I think I would have to say that this was the most powerful time of raising our children, the family meal table. What would you say, Darling?

Colin: Yes, I do think so, too. I was thinking about this. It’s wonderful for a child to know their place at the table. If they have a place at the table, there’s a sense of belonging. I belong to this family. I belong to this table. We all, somehow or other, in time, graduate to the place that we’ve been allotted. When that person’s missing, we notice that, because we take notice that even King Saul noticed that David was missing at the table. He’d been allotted a place at the table, and he was missing (1 Samuel 20:18, 25).

Nancy: And when he was missing, it was noticed.

Colin: People need to have a sense of belonging. I think it’s sad when people don’t feel they belong in the family. One way of making the family have that feeling of belonging is around the table.

Nancy: Oh, yes. Well, time has gone, again so quickly! But we will talk more again about this in the next podcast. Darling, would you like to pray?

Colin:

“Lord Jesus, we thank You, Lord, for the simplicity of Christianity, and how simple it is, really. And yet, it is divine. The family meal table is something that we need to become more accustomed to, and not take it for granted. We need to see the value of it and see how it can be used to strengthen the family, both physically and spiritually. Probably more important spiritually, but also, to strengthen the family’s ties and relationships and so on. Help us, Lord, to receive this instruction. May it be a blessing to many families. In Jesus’s Name, Amen.”

Nancy: Amen!

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 

LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 267: Another Smorgasbord with Nancy and Allison

Allison and I share another podcast together as we have many more things to share with you. We talk about the movie, THE SOUND OF FREEDOM (“God's children are not for sale!”). Did you see it? We'd encourage you to get the DVD.

This movie set us off on a tirade of the need for a new intensity of protective parenting. And what about smartphones? Do you allow your children to have them or not? We also discuss the pros and cons of young marriages.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, everyone! Here we are again, and I have Allison Hartman with me. The Hartmans, and many others, are still staying over this July 4^th week, although you will hear this podcast a little later.

We are still doing projects in this house. You can hardly walk. I go into another room and say, “Help! What are they doing now?” To think, we didn’t even plan! Our guest bathroom, I think they thought, “Oh, this needs a bit of redoing!” I go in there and they’re putting in a new bath, repainting walls, and, of course, Halle gets on the job.

Halle is Allison’s daughter who is married to Cedar, Serene’s son. My, Cedar and Halle are such an exceptional pair together. Cedar can fix anything, make anything. do anything, anything with his hands. And then, Halle comes along and just decorates. She can’t help herself, can she?

Allison Hartman: No.

Nancy: Down in Pensacola where they live, they have just got a house which Cedar has renovated, then Halle has decorated, and now they’ve got it on Airbnb. Anyway, great to have Allison with me again. We always love doing podcasts together.

Oh, I must tell you. Last night, the whole crowd of us on the Hilltop went to see the movie, The Sound of Freedom, which is exposing this sex trafficking in the world. Oh my. It was devastating to see. Wasn’t it amazing, Allison? At the end of that movie, no one moved.

Allison: I felt like I was leaving a funeral.

Nancy: Yes. You could not get up. You could not get up. People just sat there. I would encourage, I can’t say, “Go and see it,” because by the time you hear this, it will be out of the theaters, I guess. But, of course, it will always be available, and you can get it online by that time, or DVD, whatever. But you must watch it. I believe everybody in this nation needs to watch it.

Although we saw the story of two little children who were rescued from Columbia, the actual statistics are that the USA is the biggest sex trafficking country in the world. It is happening around us and we don’t even know it. This movie is so important to see, to become aware of this horror that is going on, to pray above all things, and to be very aware also.

I think, also, as parents, it comes back again to realizing the power and strength and protection of the family. All this terrific evil and horror really is because of the breakdown of the family. It comes back to family. What are your thoughts about it, Allison?

Allison: The day that Serene and us all talked about it, because she had seen it a couple of days before, she said, “I’m so thankful I went because it’s hard to pray for something unless you can really feel what’s going on there.” It’s easy to talk about it, but when you have those images in your head, when I walked away, I thought, “We’ll never be able to unsee what we just saw. Therefore, there won’t be a day that will go by that we won’t be thinking of it.”

Just like the horror and evil of abortion, when you don’t think of it, and see the movies, and talk about it, it’s hard to pray for it. But last night, it’s really, wow, it ripped off the veil over our eyes and we really were able to see.

I was going to mention, we have 11 children. We made a last-minute decision not to bring our nine and eleven-year-old girls. But we brought our 13-year-olds and up. But actually, I feel like it would have been important for our younger girls to see it. There was nothing incredibly graphic which I thought that’s what was going to happen. That’s why I didn’t bring them. I think it is something that, we’re such a sheltering family. So many of your listeners probably are, as well.

I don’t think these young girls realize the danger that is out there. Yes, we, as parents, our job is to protect them, not let them go to spend the night, or not let them go to functions that we’re not able to be there. We have to be so careful, because at the beginning of that movie, the theme was these parents were dropping off their children to do a modeling audition. Then they were told to come back and get them later on.

Nancy: They were not there! They were gone!

Allison: They were not there! They were gone. They stole their children and put them in trafficking. They were gone for years, being abused. The other thing I was thinking, we got in the car, and immediately, my personality, “Give me guns, and let me go kill some people, because this is insane, horrible. They need to die!” But obviously, that’s not even practical right now. I don’t have that option, but what I do have is I have a little army that I’m raising, my children.

What can we, as parents, do? We need to be careful. You don’t become a pedophile by becoming a pedophile. You become one by starting with things like looking at pornography on your phone. If you’re a parent out there, and your children have access to a smartphone, you really need to think twice. None of my children in the home have a smartphone. None, except for my 21-year-old.

Josh McDowell says that the age that you want your children to look at pornography, that’s the age that you’ll need to buy them a smartphone, because that’s what will happen. I think that’s what I took away. What can I do, tangibly, to keep these children pure and innocent? I know people are listening, going, “Well, you can’t shelter them for too long.” Yes, you can, you can protect them as much as we’re able.

Nancy: Yes! A couple of comments there, I would agree with you, Allison. As I was watching that movie, I thought, “Well, yes, I think ten-year-olds could come and see this,” because although we know what’s happening, it’s not actually shown. But it does give, it would give even young children an awareness that they better not go off on their own with anyone!

I think they need to have that fear of God in their hearts in this day in which we are living, because there are predators all around us. In fact, you told me this story the other day of this guy you met. Even this godly family! Help!

Allison: That was a man we met in our town. But his brother is a missionary to Africa. Their daughter, their seventeen-year-old daughter, super-protective father. He described him as kind of a Navy SEAL. He could kill someone with his bare hands. He’s such a good, protective father.

Nancy: And how many children are in the family?

Allison: I think they had seven. The guy that I was talking to is one of 16. They live in Knoxville. His brother is in Africa. Their seventeen-year-old was hearing a sound that sounded like an injured animal. The seventeen-year-old went outside to listen for the sound. Her father had built this wall in the backyard to protect them because they’re in a dangerous area.

She hopped the wall to find out what the injured animal sound was. But it was not even a real animal sound. It was a trap. As soon as she jumped the wall, these guys grabbed her, and they took her into sex trafficking. She ended up breaking out of a bag. She was stuck in a bag. She had a pocketknife in her pocket, and she cut through the bag, jumped out of a moving truck. She ended up at a school, and they called the embassy, and got her reunited with her family.

We’re talking a very protective family, not a father that just lets them go wherever. Look what happened to her. I just think our awareness needs to be up there. Everyone needs to see this movie, if for no other reason, is that our awareness is heightened. We’ve always said, “We’re not doing overnights. We’re not doing youth groups.” Well, guess what? This is a great reason not to. Yes, you might say, “Oh, I know the people.”

In this day and age, if the statistics are true, and America is the number one, and our little children are being trafficked. I couldn’t believe how young, how young these children were, being trafficked. I don’t even understand what a five, six, and seven-year-old child would be, as a . . . I don’t even want my mind to go there, but we can’t just think this is teenage girls. This was all ages.

Nancy: Another question for you, Allison, you said, and it is true, I know your family so well, that they don’t have smartphones from the teens downwards. OK, many parents say, “Well, help! Our children demand them.” How do you do that in your family?

Allison: Our 17-year-old son has a flip phone, the old-fashioned flip phone. You can get it online. You can get it on eBay. He has no access to the internet. He is allowed to text. He only has about five or six people he’s allowed to text, outside of me and Daniel, because it’s just not necessary. It gets him in trouble.

Nancy: And the amazing thing is, now all your children, of course, you’ve got older children too, they are not rebellious about that?

Allison: They aren’t.

Nancy: How have you established that in your home?

Allison: We definitely believe we’re their authority. If they enjoy living in our home, they will respect our authority. I think it is harder when you’ve already done it, and then you have to take it away. But we established that from the get-go. They know that we’re not going to waver on that.

We spent hours explaining why. My husband’s dad was heavily into pornography. He was married six different times, and pornography was the basis of why he was divorced, because no woman can live up to that. It’s a false reality. We have that in our generational curses, and Daniel wants so badly to break that. You can’t just sit around and say, “Oh, I hope my children never get into that.” You’re foolish to think.

We found a trap with even having a tablet. We bought some Amazon Kindle tablets so they could do homeschooling on it. And boom! Pornography showed up, just by watching some YouTube videos. You type in “fishing.” They were watching fishing videos. And sure enough, within a few times of clicking, pornography showed up. Sadly, some of our sons watched some things and we were just horrified. Thankfully, we were there to deal with it.

I thought I was doing so good! So, I can be honest with you ladies listening. Just because we thought we had everything in line, Satan still got into my home, just through a little Kindle tablet. If you have access to the internet, they can have access to everything. Unfettered access to the worst pornography ever. That leads to more and more.

Those pedophiles on that movie last night that are now trafficking children for sex did it because they start with something a lot of people would call just “innocent looking.” No, there’s nothing “innocent” about looking at sexual images of women or children or ladies or men. It all leads to pure evil. I take it very seriously.

It saddens me when I see teens looking at their phones, because their parents don’t have time to look at what they’re looking at. I know, I’m so busy. I have too many children to go back, “Let me see what you’ve been looking at.” They can delete histories. It’s just so much better if you say, “There will not be an internet source in my home.”

Yes, we have internet, because obviously I have a phone. We work with our business. Our children have plenty of ability to get online. They know how to do it. They know how to run credit cards and get on different things for our business. But there is just no reason why children have to have access to the internet.

Nancy: I think that is wonderful. Also, you’ve laid down those ground rules for protection for your family. But it’s not like you are this legalistic family. Your family, everything you do is together. You are a togetherness family. You do everything together.

You have so much fun and adventure. Every day is a life of adventure and fun, so your children really don’t miss out. They’re living life! They’re not away in some room, or in the corner looking at iPhones. No! You’ve got them doing something. They’re on a project. They’re working. They’re doing this, or you’re doing this together.

Life is life! That’s the trouble. So many children today, and young people, they’re not even living life. They’re just living an alternative reality that’s not even real.

Allison: False reality.

Nancy: They’re hidden away. No! As we were talking last session about the decisions we make for our family, and this is one of the decisions we have to make, and that is that every decision we make will this strengthen our family, keep it together, or will it fragment? If it fragments, we don’t do it.

There is nothing like the internet to fragment your family. Everyone becomes their own little individual. They’re not even interacting with others. In fact, in many families, they bring their iPhones to the table! Goodness me! There is no togetherness. It’s all this isolation! And it fragments the family.

Allison: Video games. That’s another one we don’t do. We have not one single electronic device in our home, and yet my nine-year-old works three days a week at a coffee shop that we own. We have a vintage camper coffeeshop and she goes with her sisters every other day, running people’s credit cards, doing all kinds of electronic things. But when we’re in the home, we do not do anything that takes them to get away from the family. Everything we do is together.

Again, it all goes back to the authority structure. My husband is the head, but he’s in their life. He’s explaining. He’s not just laying down the rules. Rules without relationship lead to rebellion, right? That was the story of my life. That was the story of so many lives. If you don’t have that relationship, they don’t have a reason to trust you. My husband has his children’s hearts, so they trust that he really . . . They may want one, but they’d never voice that, because they know that he wants their best interests. He has their best interests at heart.

Nancy: Most of your children, right down to the youngest, have all got their own businesses. They are living life.

Allison: They don’t have time for any of that.

Nancy: Right down to who’s the youngest who’s got a business.

Allison: Even Solomon, who’s seven, will show up at the market and sell something. We have a little farmer’s market we run. He’ll make lemonade. He’ll sell lemonade. He’ll make boiled peanuts and sell those. Whatever he’s interested in that week. Sometimes it changes every week. But definitely the nine-year-old and above, they’re all making money.

Annalise is making meringues, homemade healthy meringues. We’ve got kefir being sold, sourdough starter, plants, trees, produce, all kinds of things. Even if it doesn’t sell, it doesn’t matter to me. They’re learning how to run a business, have good customer relations. But again, they’re keeping their hands busy with productive things.

Nancy: Oh, yes. Eden was up, staying the other week, and I was talking to her. How old is Eden now?

Allison: 21.

Nancy: 21. She was sharing with me. She said, “You know,” just casually, “I’ve got enough money to buy a house, so I’m looking around at houses, because I’d like to get an Airbnb going.” I thought, “Help, 21!” She’s a girl, 21 years old, and she is ready to buy a house. Because from a young child, she has been productive, making things and doing things, and making money, and saving it. Look where she is today. It’s amazing!

Allison: That’s right.

Nancy: They haven’t got time for stupid smartphones!

Allison: I was talking to Michelle’s son yesterday about all these projects. I’m so thankful that my children want to be a part of working on your house. I don’t have to even think, “Oh, I should ask Eden if she wants to help remodel the bathroom.” I know she’s going to want to help. I’m so happy about that.

I honestly feel sad if parents aren’t getting their children involved in projects like that because they’re missing out. It’s fun. They have that sense of accomplishment. They’re being trained so that when they have a home . . .  think about it . . .  Cedar right now is finishing this bathroom. He doesn’t have to be doing this. This is his holiday. He’s on vacation to be with his family.

But he’s doing it, because, number one, he loves you guys. But he’s learning from all these other men, these fathers, who already know how to do a bathroom. He’s learning, so that when he buys his next home, which he’s hoping to, soon . . . they want to buy another fixer-upper . . . he’s getting on-the-ground training from men. If you’re not having your children work on projects with your husband, you’re really missing out. I know we’re totally off subject, but . . .

Nancy: Oh, it’s so great! That brings me on to another point. But before we get onto that, there was something we didn’t have time to share the last session. And that was, when you were sharing about how important it is to strengthen your family. You and a couple of other couples went for a weekend. Tell us about that before we get into our next topic.

Allison: I think it was last April, or the April before, there was a family that came to the Above Rubies retreat. Their last name is Stewart. They have nine children. He shared with me that they have a family camp up in Arkansas. They own a section of the Ozark Mountains.

For his business, Mr. Stewart goes in and trains big, big corporations. We’re talking millions of dollars corporations, to look at their employees and figure out which employees work best on certain jobs. He goes in and helps them restructure. He does business coaching to where they can use the same people.

We all have different giftings. He thought, “I need to use this business that I’m doing but do it to help families.” They started a family camp up at their Brock Mountain Ministry in Arkansas. They have a free family camp where they allow two, three, four families to come in and spend three days and have intensive family bonding, training, goal-setting. It was incredible.

We did it with Serene’s family. We did it with our family, the Schrum’s, and then our married daughter. There were four families. It was a two-day retreat, two-day weekend. We did a hike. We did a fun scavenger hunt. Everything we did though, we did as a family. The goal was to really put your heads together and see which children bring what to the table.

They gave the example that if you go, say, grocery shopping, you wouldn’t have all your children empty your car, all the children put away the groceries, all the children do a certain thing. You would find each person’s strengths and put them on that job.

I think so often we all want to have the children God has for us. We have these big families, but sometimes we’re not using them properly. We’re not pulling out the giftings of each child. He talked about the four different birds, where we all have different personalities.

We have the eagles which are the leaders. They want to make a difference.

We have the parrots. They want to be a part of something fun.

Then you have the doves, the gentle ones. They want to help. They want to serve.

Then you have the owls that want to sit and think and make good decisions. We all, in our families, have children who identify with different personalities. They really worked on bringing those strengths to the surface.

Then at the end we made family goals, which was great. That’s something we love to do. We make weekly goals. We make monthly goals, and then we make yearly goals that we want to see accomplished as a family. Spiritual, financial, physical, emotional and relational goals.

Then we also, what was the last thing we did? Oh, I just went blank. As a family, you decided, oh yes, your mission statement. Your purpose: what is your purpose as a family? I wish I had mine written down, but the gist of it was to strengthen and to encourage our community while serving them, and letting them see us do Kingdom work, while helping our community reach physical and spiritual goals. I can’t remember the exact terms. But it was wonderful! We did it. We came up with our purpose statement together. Then we left feeling so much more unified.

Nancy: The amazing thing is, Allison, is that the Stewart family does this totally free. If you maybe have a need to get your family connected, oh my, you can contact them.

Allison: That’s right.

Nancy: You can go. They will take you. They do this freely. It’s one of their goals, to minister to families. How can they contact the Stewarts?

Allison: Their ministry is called Brock Mountain Ministries. Their website is www.brockmountainministries.com. You can go in there and learn the different dates that they’re doing these family camps. There’s a link on there. There are dates. You’re right. It’s completely at no cost other than your cost getting up there. They’ll house you. They’ll feed you, and they serve you. They won’t even let you lift a finger.

I encourage you to come as a complete family. The mother, the father; if you’re a single parent, bring your children. We left feeling like it was such a wonderful complement to the Above Rubies ministry, because sometimes at our family camps, we don’t have a lot of time to do the nuts and bolts, the axle, how we’re going to take this vision and work it out, flesh it out. That’s what it did.

I’d definitely encourage you to get in touch with their ministry. Amazing family. They’re so wonderful. Serene and her husband couldn’t get enough of it. They said, “How can we help so that they can keep doing this for more people?” I think their goal is to reach 400 families over the next five years. They have tangible goals as a family.

Nancy: That is wonderful. Then, the other thought is when you were talking about Cedar and Halle as a young couple. They’re just a young couple . . . how they’re moving on in their married life. You remember, my lovely listeners, that Colin and I have been talking to you about elevating the family, and elevating the glorious roles of fatherhood and motherhood, and elevating marriage. We do have some more to talk to you about together.

But going back to Malachi, and I think I’ll talk about this with Allison today, Malachi 2:14. We’ve been talking about this Scripture. It says here: “Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.”

The phrase there, that we haven’t talked about yet, is “the wife of thy youth.” It’s interesting that the Bible says those words. The Hebrew for “youth” in that Scripture means “the state of juvenility, youthfulness.” It means that, back then, when that was written, they were most probably married no later than their late teens, because they are still in their time of juvenility. That’s so different from today.

In fact, in the United States, the statistics for marriage today are that men are getting married at about 30 years of age, and nearly 28 years for women. That age is getting older and older. The statistics are getting older all the time, because we are no longer elevating marriage to where God placed it. We only have to, apart from the Bible, consider just how God created us.

When do hormones start to operate in a person’s life? When they are 25 or 28 years of age? No! In their teens! And yet, we’re depriving them. This is the time when God wants them to come together and get married. This is really how He created us.

Of course, we know that there are many who don’t find the one that God has for them at a younger age. It may be later when this Mr. Right comes. But when this one comes when they are younger, we should not be saying, “Oh, no, no, no, you’re too young! No!” No, because it is normal. It is natural. I believe it saves so much heartache.

Halle and Cedar are just one of so many couples. We have so many of our grandchildren, our grandsons, I should say, who were married at 18. All of them are not struggling. They came into marriage ready to provide, already with good jobs, already with the vision to embrace children, because if a couple are not ready to embrace children into their marriage, they are not ready to get married.

There are some 28 to 30-year-olds who still don’t want to have children straightaway. They are not ready for marriage. An 18-year-old couple who are ready to embrace children, and to live marriage the way God wants them to, are more ready for marriage. It’s not really the age. But we go back to Halle and Cedar. Cedar started to look at Halle when she was only 15. It kind of caught you on the cuff, didn’t it?

Allison: It did. It did. I was not ready for that! But it turned out to be such an amazing thing.

Nancy: Of course, you made them wait. [laughter]

Allison: Oh yes, yes, yes.

Nancy: And she was married at age . . .

Allison: 18. Yeah, that was not in my plan, because that’s not the way I . . . That’s the thing. You moms, even if that wasn’t your story, doesn’t mean it’s not the best way. I really had to reprogram my thinking. Yeah, I was just going along with what culture said, but really, watching them, oh, they’re so perfectly innocent. They’re so perfectly made for each other. There aren’t any others out there that can say they had a relationship with them. They were each other’s first everything.

Nancy: It’s so beautiful. All our grandchildren have married that first one. They haven’t had any things contaminating their minds with another girl or another guy. It’s so beautiful. It’s so pure, and so wonderful, isn’t it?

Allison: I just love it. I love watching Halle and Cedar. There’s no shame, because there’s nothing in their pasts that they have to be ashamed of.

Nancy: They don’t have hang-ups they’ve got to work through.

Allison: No, no, no.

Nancy: And now she’s expecting. In fact, we’re going to have a little baby shower today for her, aren’t we?

Allison: Yes, yes. She’s expecting their first. We joke, because both Cedar and Halle, we probably didn’t do the greatest job preparing them on the whole “birds and the bees” subject. I just didn’t. And Serene really didn’t either. But, you know, it doesn’t really matter. They got pregnant after two weeks of being married! The whole saying of you really need to experience before you get married, no, you don’t! No, you don’t! It ‘s not God’s plan.

In contrast to Halle, my situation was so different. I can’t even count how many boyfriends I had. I can’t even count! Probably close to thirty! I was constantly looking for that approval, so I was going from boy to boy to boy to boy. I wanted something so different for my children. I see now why.

Thankfully my girls have such a strong relationship with their dad. They don’t have that lack in their life. But yeah, there’s something beautiful about it. I didn’t even realize that the quote, “the wife of your youth” was even an age thing. I know that sounds silly. I heard that phrase, but really, her being so young, and him being so young, they really get to grow up together. They really are getting to experience life together.

Nancy: Yes. And that’s how it’s meant to be. It’s so beautiful. Now, we’re not just talking about some little idea that we had. This is biblical. The Bible not only talks about “the wife of your youth,” but it also speaks about “the husband of your youth” in Proverbs 2:17. It also speaks about “the children of your youth” in Psalm 127:4. This is Bible language. God planned for couples to come together in their youth, to have children in their youth. It’s Bible!

Sometimes I will talk about this on Facebook, and I get all these people writing in all their “but, but, but, buts.” Oh, goodness me! I can’t believe it! Many times, I’ll write about a scriptural thing. I speak Scripture, and then you get all the “but, but, but, buts”! Why can’t we just take the Scripture? It’s the Word of God! It’s the living Word of God! It is the truth, not all our ideas!

All our humanistic ideas, we’re seeing the fruit of them. Nothing but hurt, and mixed-up, and messed-up, and fragmented families, and broken marriages! Let’s get back to God’s way! But, of course, this can’t happen unless we train our young people and prepare them for marriage.

Oh, it’s all very well, talking about this, but no, they have got to be prepared for marriage, prepared to take responsibility, to provide for a family, and provide for a wife, so she can stay home and nest with the children God brings. A man who will become the head of the home, to protect and provide.

We are preparing our children. So many parents today, all they’re thinking about is getting their children into college for some career. Usually the degree that they get, they never use anyway. What are they doing in preparing them for the greatest career, which is to be a father, and a mother, and to raise a family? We’ve got to prepare our children for that.

Let them mature in their youth. You think of the young people in the Bible. Think of David. How old was he when he killed Goliath, and took on this giant? The Bible says he was a youth. Yes, he was a juvenile. Most commentaries say he was only about 17 years of age. Are your 17-year-old sons ready to take on this giant of evil who is defying the living God? David challenged him. “How dare you defy the living God? He is my God, and He will take you.” Yes.

You think of King Solomon, who ruled the greatest kingdom in the world at that time. He would have been no more than 20 years of age when he began to reign. Josephus actually puts his age at 14 years.

And you think of King Josiah, king, ruling a nation. He was only eight years when he became king, but, of course, he was guided by the priests, which were such a blessing to him.

But he was only 16 years of age. Sixteen! What’s your 16-year-old doing? He was only 16 years of age. Of his volition, the Bible says: “While he was yet young.” At 16 years, he began to seek after the God of David, his father. This is what we long to see in our young people, isn’t it? Seeking after God, growing into maturity, preparing for marriage. I think it’s good to bring this out there in the Scripture. We need to see that God’s way is best.

Our time is getting to a close, but anything you want to say there.

Allison: No. I just want to encourage people. I was reading some of the comments that you got when you made that post about Halle and Cedar marrying so young. The comments were, “Well, that might be good for you, but it’s been great for me to get married later.” I understand when people make that choice to maybe get married later, it doesn’t mean that what they’re doing is wrong.

But there’s always a better way. I think, as parents, and as Christians, we need to find the best way. Even if it’s not maybe the way we were raised or the way we’re currently doing it. You can do it better. If your children have iPhones right now, that doesn’t mean you can’t take them and throw them in the garbage and replace them with something else. You can’t be stuck in that situation. You’ve got to rise above.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. We’re in a culture right now that is in absolutely desperate times. You need to be going the opposite direction. You cannot fiddle around anymore and just go along with what the culture is seeking. You’re going to look like a crazy person to most people, but that’s OK. I say, “Bring it on!” I want my children to not have to fall into this.

If you’re doing something, or you were married older, or your children are stuck into video games, don’t hear what we’re not saying. Don’t hear, “Oh, you’re terrible! You’re doing bad things!” No! Change!

Nancy: Amen. The answer in this hour comes back to us parents, to family. It’s as families strengthen that this nation will strengthen. I’m sure that by now, you should have received the new Above Rubies magazine, Number 101. There’s a great article in it by Pete Pierson called “Pioneer Parenting.” Don’t forget to read it! It will really encourage you.

So, let’s pray.      

“Father, we thank You that Allison and I could share our hearts with You, with our lovely mothers and wives, again. Lord, we pray that You will speak to their hearts. Lord God, arrest their hearts. Lord, I pray for each one listening, and all those not listening. I pray, Lord God, that You will arrest the hearts of fathers and mothers, Lord, that this is their most important work. All this other stuff that they’re doing, Lord God, is not as important as bringing their families together and strengthening their families, Lord God, and making them godly families.

“It doesn’t just happen. It takes prayer. It takes time. It takes sharing. It takes our lives. Lord God, I pray that You will pour out this anointing upon them! Lord, we pray for the strengthening of families all over this nation. We ask it, we pray for revival, for the turning of the hearts of the fathers and the mothers back to the home, oh God, and back to Your ways, and Your truths. We ask it in the precious, lovely Name of Jesus. Amen”.

And, dear, lovely listeners, please share this podcast, and the other podcasts on your social media with your friends. We have to get the message out. We are getting a message of deception and evil that’s going out of this nation. We’ve got to get out God’s truth, especially for families. Please share it! Every way you can. Amen?

Allison: Amen.

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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www.aboverubies.org

Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 

LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 266: Smorgasbord with Nancy and Allison

The Hartman’s are staying with us for July 4^th week. Join in with Allison and me as we talk about a lot of different issues, including what we can do to strengthen our families, rather than fragmenting them. We welcome you on board.

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, ladies! Today I have Allison Hartman with me. Every time the Hartman’s come, Allison and I love to do a podcast together with you. This is July 4^th week. We had the most amazing July 4^th yesterday. We always have a great time. I think it gets better every year.

It’s just about an all-day thing as we prepare for our lunchtime get-together. We used to have it down by the creek. But now that we have the wedding barn we have a pot-luck lunch in the wedding barn so we can sit and don’t have to be dripping with sweat in the sun. It’s great fellowship.

We start off very patriotically with the Pledge of Allegiance and singing the Star-Spangled Banner. Then we always have someone to share something about the nation, or something that happened in the time of 1776. Yesterday, Nate, one of our guys here, his sharing was so powerful, wasn’t it? We start off with a great patriotic spirit. Then we all fellowship together. Then everybody went down to the creek. Tell us what happened there.

Allison Hartman: Oh, that was so much fun! It was so hot\ and the creek water was so cold. All the children had the best time. They covered themselves with mud and then would wash off. All the dads were hanging out together. All the moms sat out by the shore. It was so much fun. We had a great time.

Nancy: And then we come back here to our place, and we have a big barbeque with family, with friends. Then we, after that, we have the hugest fireworks. Oh, wow! It was huge, wasn’t it?

Allison: Yes! It went on for a long, long time!

Nancy: Half an hour, blowing up money! [laughter]

Allison: Yes, yes. Blowing up money!

Nancy: But I think all these young people who’d gone around with the hat and all these young workers. . .

Allison: Yeah, they all collected all the money. Even the teenagers put in some money.

Nancy: Yes, it was such an amazing display. But I think there must have been about 200 there.

Allison: We’re thinking so. The whole lawn was full, full of people.

Nancy: The line of getting through the food took some time, didn’t it? But it was a great, a wonderful day of patriotism, of fellowship, and just being together. I think that one of the greatest things in life is being together. And God loves it. He plans it. He plans for us to be a together people.

In fact, it begins with God Himself who is a triune Being. Even in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, live in beautiful unity and togetherness. Then God created man and woman in His image and created us in His image to be a together people. That’s why He mandated family. That’s why we live in families. We’re not meant to be isolated. The Bible says that He puts the solitary in families.

Really, people are not meant to live on their own. It is so sad that there are many older people and others in circumstances who are living on their own. Some may love to live on their own but it’s not really the ultimate. God created us to be a together people. I think we must live such a blissful life because we have so much togetherness!

Yesterday was an extra big togetherness. Of course, the Hartman’s are here, not just for July 4^th. They’re here for the whole week. I think I may have told you this before. When they come, oh, goodness me! They just won’t sit and relax. They come and just relax. But no, they all come, and they’re ready to do projects.

So, once again, today, I don’t know how we’re doing this podcast because there’s been banging in the bathroom, and children being loud, and things happening here and there. But anyway, we’re doing it! In the midst of all these projects. We’re doing the deck, fixing the bathroom, and fixing our shower that leaked. Then doing all the water pipes. Goodness me, there’s just activity everywhere!

Allison: Yep. It’s wonderful. I love seeing all the different ages do different projects. We want to try to be a blessing while we’re here. Our love language is work. That’s why we’re here.

Nancy: Yes. So, all the young people are also working today. But they also have so much fun. They were on the volleyball court for hours again yesterday in between everything else.

Allison: We’re trying to teach ours that you can have fun while working. There’s no reason why you can’t. We have a lot of friends who are Mennonites. It’s so interesting when they go to different families for vacation. They go with the intention to do a project for that family, to help them. Then they get so much more done. And it’s so much more fun if you’re doing it with someone else.

Nancy: I love that Scripture where Paul wrote about our fellowship in the gospel (Philippians 1:5). I think that’s a beautiful thing. When you’re working for the Kingdom and you’re doing things for one another. When you’re doing it together. . . Somebody doing it on their own, it’s a bit of a trial. But when you’re doing things together, it is fun and fellowship, isn’t it?

Allison: So true.

Nancy: We were created for fellowship. We need fellowship. It is so affirming and wonderful. Oh, now, you’ve got to tell us. A while back, you thought you’d do this most amazing thing and take your whole family on a holiday. So, what did you do?

Allison: This past Christmas we gave our children their gift. It was to take everyone on a family cruise. We booked it. Of course, it was pretty expensive because there were 17 of us. We took our 11 children, two spouses, and Vision. We brought Vision along too. Between all of us, there were 17 of us. In order to do that . . . Oh, I’m losing my voice because we were having so much fun this week. I’ve already been screaming and hollering.

We went ahead and got a cruise with Carnival. We did a five-day cruise to Mexico. It was about $8,000 for all of us to go which was somewhat reasonable when you’re talking all your food and stay is covered. It was a wonderful, wonderful idea, but I guess we’re mentioning this because I don’t want anyone else to have to go through what we went through.

What we found was, yes, it was great family time. But I didn’t expect what we saw. What we saw was an overwhelming lack of shame. The majority of the people who were on the boat, so many of them were there with the intention of just running from their problems at home. They probably, a lot of them, had saved up for years and years for this one big cruise.

You know, the saying goes, “What goes on in Vegas, stays in Vegas.” Whatever bad lifestyle that you had going on there, you don’t talk about it. That’s what it was like on the cruise. People came with the plan to live life to the fullest, drink as much, eat as much, but wear as little amount of clothes as you possibly can. Because it doesn’t matter. No one’s going to see you. No one in your real life is going to see you.

It’s like a pretend life, because on a cruise, it’s fun, but it’s not real life. There’s nothing in real life that says you’re going to have unlimited food, unlimited drink. For another $300, you can drink alcohol unlimited on the boat. You had these people get on. They started drinking the minute they got on the boat, and then they, of course, had to stop drinking when they finished the cruise.

As a mom, and as a family, we went, thinking we’re going to have this wonderful wholesome fun. But unfortunately, we have so many teenage boys and younger boys and the clothing that these girls were wearing on the ship was so, so, bad, so fleshly, that it was very debilitating. We had to have many times where we’d have a family meeting of what our boys were to do with their eyes.

You’ve got to think, we live in Pensacola Beach area, so we’re on the beach. We see what people wear on the beach. This was beyond. I don’t say don’t ever take a family cruise, but avoid short-term, inexpensive cruises, especially cruise lines like Carnival. They’re party boats. They’re meant to attract the party crowd. If you’re a family, that is really not the best place for you.

Nancy: I think you never go on a Carnival cruise with a family.

Allison: No, no.

Nancy: I think you’re better, really, just to find some other lovely place to go as a family.

Allison: I think it was probably not the best choice of family vacations.

Nancy: We’ve actually been on a couple of cruises that we’ve been so blessed. Pearl and Charlie said, “Oh, we’d just love you to go. This is your Christmas present, a cruise.” But they know that we would never even survive one like that. They have booked for us on a cruise where there’s mainly older people and that’s really quite lovely. But even on those, we lived mainly to ourselves.

Allison: I didn’t realize what a bubble I live in. I didn’t realize that this was even out there, that people would have that little amount of shame, that they would be willing to wear just about nothing. Bathing suits are one thing. Even bikinis are one thing. This was beyond. Yeah, it was something I really, really didn’t want to let my boys, especially, experience. It was a big shock to us.

However, we did have a really neat thing happen. When you’re on the boat, there’s nothing you can do. You can’t get off, so you might as well find something productive to do. Well, one day we went ahead and got in the pool with all the drinkers and the partiers. My husband and I were in this pool because there were no other pools to be in.

There was this lady who came up to us. She said, “I heard how many children you have. That’s just amazing! We can’t even believe it!” Her boyfriend was with her, and he came over and he included lots of cuss words. But he was just like, “Wow, that’s amazing! You have so many children! We’ve been watching you. And we have to ask you. There’s something different about your family. What is it? You don’t look like everybody else on this boat.”

When I say we were the anomaly, we were absolutely in the five percent on the boat that had clothes on, that were happily married, that weren’t drunk out of their minds. She kept saying, “What is different about you?” It was such a neat thing. There was loud, trashy music going on around us. There were girls who were barely clothed. So much nakedness and nasty stuff going on around us, but we had a moment with this couple.

We shared that the reason that our family looks different is because we actually love our lives. We love our family, and we came with the intention to spend time with our family. Well, this young man had just lost his mother. He hated his life, and he was on the boat to drink his problems away. We were able to share the Lord with him. We witnessed to him, right there in the middle of this pool. We asked if we could pray for him. We prayed for him, for probably 20, 30 minutes.

The amazing thing is, when we were done praying, all these people had scattered. There was like a force field around us. Nobody wanted to be around us, because I’m telling you, the Spirit came down during our prayer. It was so powerful. I looked up, and this man and woman were just bawling. I was able to speak into their lives. I said, “There is more to life than what you’re doing right now. You’re drinking your problems away. They’re still going to be there.”

We were able to share about Jesus with them. So, that, right there, it was worth it. The guy’s name, I’m trying to remember. I had his name written down, because we’ve been praying for him. But it was a real powerful moment. But we really realized that we were a light in a very dark, dark place. But anyway, we had a great family time and got to have a lot of lessons with our boys.

Nancy: Yes, yes. So, if you’re planning a cruise, don’t choose Carnival.

Allison: Don’t choose a Carnival cruise, especially out of New Orleans, especially short-term. Pearl goes on lots of cruises, but she said make sure you go on one at least seven days, and not a party boat.

Nancy: Yes, yes, yes. Oh, we’re talking about what is going on in this world. As you said, Allison, sometimes we can live in our little bubble. Well, last month was pride month. Isn’t it amazing that we have all these days that we commemorate in our nation, and that we have a day for them? And a very important day, some of them.

But how it is that these people have a whole month? It’s unbelievable. We were totally . . . we could hardly take it in. What was happening here in our state, in Tennessee, here in the Nashville area, which is the buckle on the Bible belt? Yet there were all these big, huge pride parades. They were advertising them as “family friendly.”

We didn’t ever go inside to them at all, but they did have . . .  they were advertising, they had tents for the little children, and tents for the teenagers, so they could give them all their terrible junk. On two different occasions, in Dickson and in Franklin, Colin and just a few others went and protested.  Not inside the gate, but just at the gate as they were all going in. I had other things on, and I couldn’t. I wanted to because I believe we have to be a voice against evil. God calls all this lifestyle an abomination. It is evil. It is against nature.

But anyway, then they had the Nashville one. And praise the Lord, I was free. This time we had about 11 of us who went. Randy, who’s part of our church fellowship here, contacted many churches in Nashville and encouraged them to come too and to be a voice against this evil. But apart from just one or two young people witnessing, we didn’t see anyone else.

We went there. We had signs, which were good signs. They weren’t just “You are terrible people,” or anything. But they were holding up the truth and lifting up the Name of Jesus. But, oh, you couldn’t believe it. We were just outside the gates. There we were as everybody was passing, and they were passing in their crowds. Their crowds! You just couldn’t believe it! How is it, in the buckle on the Bible belt, thousands and thousands of people are pouring into this place which God says is an abomination.

Once again, they were hardly clothed. It was such a display of the flesh, a display of what they call pride. The proudness, the determination in their eyes, and the pride. It was very astounding. But it was an amazing time to be able to, each person, well not person, because they were passing in their crowds, just praying for them.

We didn’t stand there sort of just looking like these terrible religious people. No, we were smiling at them, even though we were so grieving for what they were doing. Maybe there are many who didn’t really know what they were going into although I think most of them did, the way they were dressed and how they went in.

I did put a little post on my Facebook about it.

Allison: I saw that.  

Nancy: I couldn’t believe the comments! Many Christians saying . . .  one person I remember saying, “How dare you do that? You should be giving them donuts and cups of tea as they go in!” I don’t think this person could even understand. These people were rushing in. If we were trying to give them a donut, they’d be throwing it back at us! There wouldn’t be time to give them a cup of tea! Where or how would you do that?

They were rushing into this place. It was like watching that broad way. As Jesus said, “Narrow is the way that leads to life, but broad is the way that leads to destruction.” It was like they were just rushing down this broad way, not knowing where they were going.

We are in an hour of great evil in our nation. The amazing thing is, is that they’re trying to make it that anybody that speaks against them, they’re the evil one! What is happening? It’s all turned around so that evil is made to look good, and that which is good is made to be evil (Isaiah 29:16), This is total turning around. It’s totally against God and against nature.

But dear ladies, often we are home. We’re doing the greatest job in the world mothering our children and doing such a great work. But we also must be those who are standing up against evil because our children are having to grow up in the world, this deceived wicked world, and it’s only going to get worse unless we are a voice, unless we say something, unless we expose these evil things.

Allison: That’s right. It’s not going to come without a cost. You and I were talking about how. . .  You were so funny, you’re like, “It doesn’t matter.” It doesn’t bother you when people lash back out at you on social media, but a lot of mothers that might be listening might say, “If I speak up, I’m going to lose friends.” You’re going to lose family. They’re going to turn against you. That’s true. It really is true. It’s a price that not many people are willing to take, not even a price that churches are willing to take. So many churches just want to keep things neutral. They don’t want to take a side.

Nancy: That’s what I couldn’t believe. I thought, “How is it, all these people rushing down this broad road to destruction,” because it’s a lifestyle that ends in destruction. Where were the people of God? Where were they? There was no one! I can’t believe it.

It’s like during the time of the Holocaust and leading up to that. There was a woman who wrote about it. She called it “the spiral of silence,” and how, little by little, the Christians were silenced because they did not speak out. But because they did not speak out at the beginning, then Hitler began to take more and more control. Their silence was . . .  it was harder then to speak out. The more we say nothing, then it becomes harder to say something. We’ve got to be speaking out. We cannot go down this downward spiral of silence! No!

Allison: Remember Penny Lee that came and spoke at the retreat? She has a video that she put together called “Sing a Little Louder,” and that’s exactly what it was. The voices of the church people, when the cars would go by, they would say, “Sing a little louder.” You don’t have to hear the cries of the people. That’s exactly what’s going on.

I noticed several of the responses on your Facebook post were, “You should be encouraging them. You should be loving on them.” What person in their right mind, seeing someone heading for a . . . You think about destruction, you think about maybe a house burning down. Or you think about cars crashing into someone. Whatever you can think of that is the most destructive thing, who wouldn’t warn someone, and say, “No! No, don’t! Don’t go there! It’s destruction! You’re going to die!”

There’s a girl in our town who has just announced that she’s about to marry a woman. As sad as I was to hear that, I was more saddened to see the response of people at her church, saying, “Good for you! So happy you found this!” This is not, you’re not doing anyone a good service! You’re not really loving them by saying, “Way to go!” You’re just encouraging.

Nancy: You’re sending them to hell. I watched Colin this Saturday. We were down there. We were close to the people as they were passing by. He would say to them, “Don’t go through that gate. That’s the wrong gate.” He said it with such passion and love.

You know what? Their reactions were so incredible. Sometimes he’d say, “That is leading to hell.”

“Oh! I want to go to hell!” “I don’t believe in God!”

He’d say, “Don’t you want to go to heaven?”

“No! I don’t want to go to heaven!” That’s their response! Their hearts are so hardened. It’s unbelievable.

What does it say in Ezekiel? I’m always challenged by this. Ezekiel 3:18-19: “When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.”

That’s repeated again, in Ezekiel 33:7-8. That is a warning. We are told to warn the wicked. To love them is to save their lives! Yes. Oh, wow.

So, anyway, that’s some of the things we’ve been doing. Oh, yes, we were going to talk, too, about. . . Yes, at our last retreat, in April, Allison and Daniel and their family are the ones who put on the Above Rubies Family Camp in Panama City, Florida. It started off as a family camp every weekend. Oh, not every weekend, but just a weekend.

It became so wonderful that now nobody can survive for just a weekend so we have a week-long retreat every year now. And then that wasn’t enough, so now we have three retreats! Of course, we have other family retreats also around the nation. We have one coming up in Mississippi and one coming up in Missouri. They’re all such wonderful places to get to, to fellowship.

But you were saying to me, Allison, the one thing that you remembered from this retreat that I said, was something you picked up. When you are making decisions for your family, this is an important thing to remember. To think, “OK, is this going to keep our family together? Is this going to strengthen our family? If so, go for it! However, if it’s something that will fragment our family and cause us to all go in different directions, well, don’t do it? Because we need to always do that which will strengthen us as a family.” How does that affect you?

Allison: That was definitely my biggest take-away from the whole week. It hit me like a ton of bricks. As a family, we’re very busy. We have our own business. We own a photography studio. We run two farmer’s markets. Our children are extremely involved in sports. We’re a very athletic family.

To me, that was a very simple question to ask ourselves as parents because we’re obviously the heads of our households. Of course, our husbands are, but then the wives are under their husbands. There’s nothing really wrong with being busy, as long as your busyness is something that brings the family together.

It is a big challenge when you have a large family, especially, and they’re going in a million different directions. You can almost find yourself to where every day everyone’s going in ten different directions, 11, 12, 13 different directions. Yes, you might come together for the dinner table. But that’s such a small part of your day.

When you said, “Is what you’re doing with your time, is it going to fragment the family, or is it going to bring the family back together closer?” I really had to evaluate the things that we do as a family. What activities are really helpful?

One thing I realized that was not bringing the family together, but it was fragmenting our family, was a couple of different sports that we were involved in. Our boys love to play soccer. However, soccer season is also during our busiest business season. It’s also the same time of day as our family farmer’s market. But yet I was trying to juggle it all. What I found is, I was having other mothers have to pick up our son to take him to soccer, while the rest of us were running the farmer’s market, while the older children were running photo shoots.

I had to say, “What should I cut out?” And it was very easy. It was very easy to answer that. Cut out the things that fragment the family. If you can’t do it as a family, then don’t do it. Now, obviously there are some things that you’re going to have to do, that you can’t include everybody. You wouldn’t send the whole family grocery shopping. That would be silly. You would send your best grocery shopper.

But for the most part, if you’re doing things that are very seasonal, that are taking a part of your family away, then just cut them out.

Our goal is not to raise soccer players. Our goal is to raise mothers and fathers. We are not raising children. We are raising adults. We are raising mommas and daddies. If I’m not allowing them to do activities that are going to help them be better businessmen, adults, mothers, fathers, husbands, wives, then I’m actually doing a disservice to our children.

Again, we love to play sports. So there is really no reason that you have to choose and not have fun, right? What we decided was that we started running volleyball tournaments because they love playing volleyball too. We started doing volleyball tournaments at our farmer’s market. That way, we’re all together on the same property, but our boys are able to do their volleyball.

And they made a business out of it. They started doing paid volleyball tournaments. You would come. You would pay a fee to be there, but they were running it like a business. They were able to play volleyball. We were able to keep an eye on them, so we were involved. It was a great compromise. I don’t know how that’s going to look for everybody. You have to figure out what works for your family. Sometimes you can do volleyball or a sport as a family, but make sure you’re doing it together.

The Baussum’s are another family who were so involved in basketball that it just consumed their family time. They were never able to do family dinner table because they were always playing basketball. They also, because of this past retreat, were so motivated to quit playing basketball, and they were very, very good basketball players. In fact, last night, the dad shared with us. . .

Nancy: Because the Beres’ family came, and they have been staying here also. There are other families who came for July 4^th.

Allison: Right. But this was interesting. I didn’t even realize this until last night. He told his children, “You can either play basketball or we can go to the January Above Rubies Retreat.” The children are really good basketball players.

Do you know that they said, because they weren’t able to go to the January retreat to be with all their friends they had met, they decided, “We don’t want to do basketball anymore,” because it’s so seasonal. They wouldn’t be allowed to go to the retreat, and they really wanted to be a part of this Above Rubies fellowship that we started.

Nancy: Sarah was telling me last night that they’re coming to the January one, the April one, and the August one!

Allison: Yes! And they weren’t able to do that because if you’re involved in a sport, you have tournaments, games, practices, and it consumes you. They thought it wasn’t worth it. They’d rather have their children around other like-minded people.

Nancy: Yes, I think that you’ve got to work it out. Each family has to work it out. Sports often fragment the family.

Allison: You and I were talking about dance the other day, remember? We did a talent show. You didn’t mention the talent show, and how amazing it was.

Nancy: Right! Yes, we did a talent show. It was actually called “Talent for God Night.” We decided we wanted to have a night where all the young people, older people, anybody, children, could share their talent. Oh, we had 34 different items! Can you believe it? And everyone was amazing!

Allison: So much talent!

Nancy: Well, one of our lovely little girls, she’s only about ten. You know, one of the families here in the fellowship. She did a gymnastic dance. She was amazing!

Allison: Incredible.

Nancy: I thought she had been trained. I went to her mother afterward, and I said, “Oh, that was just so amazing!” She said, “Oh, yes, I think I’d better get her into gymnastics.” I said, “I beg your pardon? She doesn’t go?” She said, “No, but I can see she has talent.”

I said, “Well, you know what? She is actually better than people, young children I see who go. Why send her? Why spend the money? Why spend that time running her in, running her out?” It’s going to fragment her family even more.

“What do your other children do when you’re taking her?” I said, “She is so creative. She has totally choreographed the whole thing herself.” It was just amazing. It was incredible. I think you said, because you photograph them down there in Pensacola and she was better than anybody else.

Allison: We do several dance studios. My daughter Eden said, “She’s better, talent-wise, than most of the dancers at this entire dance studio, which has 300 dancers.” And these girls have been dancing since they were four!

Nancy: Yes. But you see, there’s something about when someone has a gift and they use their own creativity, it is incredible. I believe in that Scripture, “A man’s gift makes room for him and brings him before kings” (Proverbs 18:16).

Sometimes we think our children have to go to this, go to that. Really, they’re all made to do the same little thing. Oh, goodness me, it’s actually boring. When children are released into their own creativity and the gifts that they have, they can be far better! But we’ve gone overtime. We always do. So, let’s pray.

“Father, we thank You that we can talk together about all these things, that we all face these different issues. We pray today for every beautiful mother, and all the young people, and the children listening, and husbands. Yes, thank You for the husbands who listen too. We pray that You will bless each family, and strengthen them, Lord God. Help them to, Lord, do the things in their family that knit them together, keep them together, strengthen them as a family.

“Lord, our children grow so quickly. Lord, it’s like a blink of our eyes (and I say this because I’m now a great-grandmother). But, Lord, when I look back, it was like one blink of my eye and my children were gone into their adult lives. Lord God, this time that we have is so powerful and precious. I pray, Lord, that You’ll give them wisdom to, Lord, make the most of it, and strengthen their family as a family together as they learn to work together and do things together and play together. Oh, God, pour out Your blessing upon them today, and all throughout the coming week. In Jesus’ Name, amen.”

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell

EPISODE 265: It’s Time to Elevate the Role of Husband and Wife, Continued - Part 7

In Malachi chapter 2, the question rings out, “What does God want from your marriage?” God comes back with His answer. Do you know what it is?

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.

Nancy Campbell: Hello, everyone! Colin and I are back with you, continuing to talk from Malachi 2:14-16, all about marriage. We notice another little thing here today. It begins with the words “The Lord hath been witness between you and the wife of your youth.”

I am thinking about the words: “The Lord has been witnessing.” Wow! That is pretty amazing, isn’t it? God is witnessing everything that’s happening in our marriage. He’s witnessing all our interactions together. He’s witnessing our attitudes to one another. It’s not hidden. It’s all there before the eyes of the Lord.

So, dear lovely ladies, wives, and maybe any husbands listening, we must remember that. Oh, what a difference it would make in our marriages if we were constantly aware of this truth that God is watching and witnessing. The paraphrase of The Message Bible says: “God was there as a witness when you spoke your marriage vows to your young bride.” That’s another thing He witnessed. He witnessed our vows. Wow!

That is powerful, too, because in every marriage we say vows. Are we keeping to our vows? Maybe you said something like this, which are very original marriage vows. I love to hear the original, powerful, and strong marriage vows. Sometimes young couples today like to make up their own vows. Sometimes they can be very wonderful too. Sometimes they can be a little wishy washy, full of love, and all that kind of stuff. But there’s more than love that’s involved in vows. There is commitment and there are powerful words.

I love to hear a married couple speak forth these words: “I take you to be my lawfully wedded husband, and forsaking all others, to have and to hold from this day forward. For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey according to God’s holy ordinance.”

We go to Proverbs 2:17. It talks there about the wife who “forsakes the guide of her youth, and forgets the covenant of her God.” Yes! When we make vows on our wedding day, it wasn’t only a covenant with our husbands. It was a covenant with God. And God was witnessing. Do you notice it? You’re most probably just listening to me but if you go back to your Bible later, you will see those words: “The covenant of her God.”

It is a covenant with God. What does the word “covenant” mean? That word in the Hebrew is beriyth, and it means “a compact made by passing between pieces of flesh as God did with Abraham in Genesis 15. A contract accompanied by signs, sacrifices, and a solemn oath which seals the relationship with promises of blessing for obedience and curses for disobedience.” Well, that’s the big meaning, but that’s the whole understanding of “covenant.”

That’s another thing. Marriage is OK. We come to marriage and we’re in love. But life is not perfect. Life is not easy, and things happen. Things are said, and things are done. Love can fly out the window. But marriage is more than just the love. It is the commitment. It is a covenant, a covenant that we make with God. Amen?

Colin Campbell: This covenant, as it brings out here, is so important to process and accept. To think about it and to accept it as it states here that it’s a covenant of the guide of her youth. She was happy to be guided by the Lord during her young days. Now she’s gotten married, and somehow . . .

Nancy: And her husband is now her guide.

Colin: Her husband is now her guide. Also, the Lord, as well. She’s forgotten the God of the covenant here. That’s what it mentions. She’s desecrated that wife life, entertaining others in a marital way into her life, a formicatory way into her life. This is tragic.

I think we need to realize just how the covenant we make is not just with our wives. So many people think that. I think its what people take for granted that, “My covenant is with my wife.” But no, this covenant is with the Lord as well. It’s such an important thing. I think that can revolutionize a lot of marriages if we understand that when we’re going into this covenant.

Nancy: Yes, OK. Let’s keep looking at this wonderful passage in Malachi 2:15: “Did He not make one?” And then it carries on in the King James and it’s a little difficult to understand, so let’s read another translation.

The BSB says: “Has not the Lord made them one, having a portion of the Spirit?”

The ESV says: “Did He not make them one, with the portion of the Spirit in their union?”

And then let’s carry on in King James: “And wherefore one?” In other words, why did God make the man and wife one? The question is asked. And then, back comes the answer. Are you ready for it? “That He might seek a godly seed.”

This is a very powerful truth for marriage because many couples go into marriage with not a thought of having children. Oh, well, one day they might have children. But so many couples go into marriage today, they have all their plans of what they’re going to do, and how they’re going to get their house paid for, and how they’re going to get everything they need. They’re going to be really set up, and they’re going to have time to get to know one another. Then they might be ready to have children.

But that is not God’s plan at all. In fact, God makes it very plain here. Why did God make us one? Because He longs for godly offspring. This is what God wants from our marriage.

Let’s read The New Living Translation: “Didn’t the Lord make you one with your wife? In body and spirit, you are His. And what does He want? Godly children from your union.”

The God’s Word Translation says: “Didn’t God make you one? Your flesh and spirit belong to Him. What does the same God look for? But godly descendants.”

God is making it very clear here that He looks for the godly seed. He looks for godly children to come forth from our union. So, when a married couple gets married, but they have no thought of having children, they’re not really ready for marriage. It’s not really a biblical, godly marriage. It’s just two people living together!

For out of marriage comes motherhood, and that’s God’s plan. In fact, this is a pretty powerful statement. If a couple do not want children, they have a different mindset than God. Can I say that again? If a couple going into marriage don’t want children, they have a different mindset than God. They’re on a different page than God. They’re out of sync with God because that is not His vision for marriage.

Colin: Especially if they’re delaying it. They may want children, but they want children later. You’ve got no guarantee that there will be children later. Because you want to get everything first—you want to get your home, and your business, and your marriage solidified, and so on, like that.

But in the having of children, that’s all part of marriage. If we realize that as we have children, our eyes get more taken up with children than just being critical with one another. This is a blessing in itself, just having children to bless your marriage. So many people are fighting with one another and not realizing how children can actually stop you from fighting with one another. It's a tremendous thing.

Nancy: There are some couples who, yes, they love the Lord with all their hearts. They are so wanting to serve the Lord. Therefore, they delay children for so-called “spiritual reasons.” I know many couples who have said to me, “Well, we don’t want to have children straightaway because we’re in the ministry. We’re serving the Lord. We don’t want anything to hinder our serving the Lord.”

In the days of mission boards, when missionaries would go out to the field, not like they do today, just a short-term mission. But they would go out for great lengths of time. Many mission boards would not accept people who had more than two or three children which was really against the Word of God.

Colin: And they didn’t want them to have children on the mission field.

Nancy: I know. And can you believe that? Here they are, going out to teach heathen people the ways of the Lord and they’re teaching them something foreign.

Colin: And sometimes those people have a greater relationship, even amongst the heathen people, Islamics for example, have a greater understanding of the value of children. Here, a missionary couple comes over to speak to them about Jesus Christ and the ways of the Bible, but they don’t have any understanding of the value of family.

Nancy: I know. The heathen that he is teaching are having children and they’re stopping children!

Colin: Just imagine how those people, who are so-called of Islamic faith, or something, can they receive anything from these people if they have no great value on the family? God is such a family God. He really wants people to get married and multiply. Replenish the earth, take dominion.

It’s through children, raising children in the godly ways of the Lord that will attack the enemy. We are raising soldiers. We are raising young babies, and we’re having them, and we’re raising them in the family to be a godly workforce, to be a godly influence in the land. We should not be holding back on God in that regard, because if we do, we hold back the ways of the Lord. It’s a phenomenal force. That is true.

Nancy: And it’s not just having children for the sake of having children, because what do we read here? “That He might seek a godly seed,” or as some translations say: “What does He want? Godly children from your union.” That word “godly” is actually, is literally, the word Elohim. It’s a very first word that is used to describe God, in the very beginning. “In the beginning, God . . .” “In the beginning, Elohim.”

Now we read this same word, “I look, I long for Elohim’s children, children who come forth in the image of God and are trained in His ways and will come forth out of the home to bring the image of God, to bring His light and His salvation and His truth to the world.” This is God’s heart. He longs for godly children.

OK, we are obedient to having children, but it doesn’t stop there. Then, our vision in life then is to raise these godly children, raise them in the Word, fill them with the Word of God, and prepare them to be lights and heralders of Christ in this world.

Colin: Yes. So, having these children, and multiple children, is so important to God. It’s not important in today’s modern church. They have no understanding of this. They do not even want to understand that point. They see children as being a kind of a nuisance and getting in the way of the couples’ mission of going overseas or anything like that.

This is happening, but it’s wrong. It’s not the way God wants it to be. Godly children are raised by godly parents. It’s bringing about the likeness and the image. We’re co-creators with God in the form of bringing our children into having godly education and having godly influence in their lives. They will come out of that home or be raised up in that home to be a godly influence in the world.

These children of ours are really raised to be agents made in the likeness and image of God. Each one of these children, you never know just how far and what great influence they can have as salt and as light. Whatever we are meant to be for God, so are we raising children in that same dimension. Even to go further than us.

Nancy: That’s so true. Another little thought. You know, I didn’t always understand these truths. I remember in the early days of my marriage struggling with this whole concept, because it wasn’t taught as I was growing up, even in the church. I was thinking, “Wow! Well, if I’m going to be home with all these children, how can I serve the Lord?” I think that’s how a number of couples think, especially those who love the Lord, and they want to serve the Lord.

But as I was grappling with this truth one night, the Lord woke me up and spoke these words to my heart. He said to me:

“The perfect will of God for your life will never contradict My existing commandments.”

Therefore, what was the very first command that God ever gave? The very first words that God ever proclaimed into the ears of man were these words: “Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth.” They were the very first words that God spoke to man!

Therefore, if we cannot receive them, we are in disobedience. If we think that, “OK, I can’t have children because, oh, I won’t be able to serve the Lord, or I won’t be able to do this ministry, or I won’t be able to do that,” it’s not God’s perfect will. It’s our own desires. Because God’s perfect will can never contradict what He has already said.

I believe that we can have children and serve the Lord. In fact, I think we serve in a greater way by embracing the children He wants to give us. We multiply our ministry. If it’s just going to be us who are doing it, it’s confined only to us. But as we train children in the ways of the Lord, our ministry is multiplied. The message of God is multiplied. The image of God is multiplied. The more children we have, the more we release of the image of God in the world.

Colin: Yes. When we deny God these children, we deny His image in the world, and increasing the image of God in the world to fill the whole world. We deny our own blessings with that. We deny so many eternities with that mindset.

This is something that might maybe be new to many people that are hearing this podcast today, but this is absolutely the truth. God is in this. There is nowhere you can find in the Bible that He’s against having children with the godly people that love Him and walk in His ways. He will bless them and will provide for them, and God’s image and God’s ways will be multiplied in the earth. God intends it to be this way.

Nancy: Now, we need to look at this a little bit more. That word that God said when he answered, “What does God want from your marriage? I want a godly seed.” That’s the word in the King James. Other translations use the word “children,” or “descendants.” But what is that word in the Hebrew? It’s the Hebrew word zera, Z-E-R-A, and this word literally means “it can mean the sperm, but it can mean also, little children. It can mean teenage children. It can mean adults. It’s a word that is used comprehensively from the sperm right up to until someone dies, really.”

It’s amazing. When we read the word “seed,” we just think of, OK, seed, well, that’s just a sperm. But it’s amazing, ladies. Isn’t it amazing that God uses the same word, “sperm, seed,” the word zera? He uses that same word for the word “sperm.” If we read in the King James language, it calls the sperm “the seed of copulation.” That Hebrew word is exactly the same word that is used to describe people! They’re no longer a sperm but now they’ve grown into little children. They’ve grown into young adults. They’ve grown into older people.

Let’s look at some Scriptures. Genesis 46:6-7 tell us how Jacob was coming down from Canaan to Egypt with all his family. “And they took their cattle, and their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan, and came into Egypt, Jacob, and all his seed [zera] with him: His sons, and his sons' sons with him, his daughters, and his sons' daughters, and all his seed brought he with him into Egypt.”

When Jacob came down from Egypt, did he come down with little sperms floating down with him? No. Although the Bible uses that word, “seed,” zera, it actually means “sons and daughters and grandchildren.” It’s little ones, and big ones, and adults. God uses the same word. That’s why it is so powerful when we destroy the sperm. There are some methods of contraception that destroy the sperm. We think nothing of it! But God sees beyond where we see. He sees that sperm as a future human being. Therefore, we have to be very careful what we do with the seed.

Let’s look at some other Scriptures, shall we? In Numbers 14:24, talking about Caleb. God says that Caleb “followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed [zera] shall possess it.” God is not only wanting to bless Caleb. He wants to bless his future generations! He calls them “seed,” but they’re not little sperms. They’re growing into little children, and bigger children, and moms and dads, and older people. They are possessing the land that he took. This is how God sees it.

Imagine if Caleb lived in this day, and his descendants began to say, “Well, we don’t want to have too many children,” so they’re either having no children, or stopping at their one or two. Well, there wouldn’t be many people possessing the land, would there?

We think of Phinehas. Remember Phinehas? He was the high priest. When they were having that problem with the people of Moab coming in and committing adultery with the children of Israel, oh, there was one couple, a prince of Israel. He brought this Moabite woman into the camp. There they were. They were having sex together, and Phinehas, oh, he was so jealous for his God, and for the holiness of God, that he took a javelin. He went in and put the javelin through both of them.

God was pleased with his stand against evil. It tells us in Numbers 25:12-13, “Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed,” there’s that word again, zera. “His seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God.” Once again, God was talking about future generations of people. But the word He used is the word that can be used for sperm or for people. God sees them as one. He sees that sperm will one day be a future person.

What about the New Testament? I love that Scripture in Hebrews 7:9-10. It’s talking about Abraham, and how he paid tithes to Melchizedek. But do you remember what it actually says? It’s amazing! It says that Levi, not just Abraham, but Levi . . . Levi, was he a grandson, or great-grandson? Yes, great-grandson!

He wasn’t even a twinkle in Abraham’s eye, but the Bible, the Bible says that Levi, who wasn’t even thought of by Abraham, Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek while he was yet in the loins of Abraham. God saw Levi, and even the descendants of Levi, in the loins of Abraham. God saw before they were even born. God goes even beyond the sperm to see even beyond them. He sees who He had planned to be born. Oh, my. It’s time we got a little bit in sync with God and begin to think how God thinks. Don’t you?

Colin: I do. And I think this is so important here, to regard the seed of man, the sperm of man, as a sacred thing, because with that, God brings forth His own likeness, and His own image through that seed. So, we’re not to treat it as a common thing, and as something to be dispensed with so easily, and to be manipulated and used in a wrong way. It’s very sacred to God. Very sacred to God, and I think it needs to be seen that way, very, very importantly.

Nancy: We see this over and over again, in the Word of God in many instances. I was thinking of another one. Cyrus. Do you remember Cyrus? “King of the four corners of the earth.” King of Persia.” And how God raised him up to be the one to allow the people of Judah to come back to their land?

Cyrus was prophesized. His name was spoken and written in the Bible 100 years before he was even born. He was a heathen king! And yet God spoke, not only that he was going to be born, but his name! It’s just amazing, isn’t it, how God sees. And I think of the church today. We think of the thousands, perhaps millions, of godly seed that God intended to be born to bring forth His image.

Colin: Just discarded!

Nancy: To show forth His salvation and truth to this world. And they are not here because God’s people were deceived and brainwashed. They limited their families. They limited them to maybe one or two which is the norm amongst so many thousands of so-called Christian families today. Oh, so tragic.

Colin: It seems to me, just thinking about it, even as we’re talking here, that even as we, as Christians, regard abortion as a wickedness before God, as something very, very wrong, and very evil, so should we regard the importance of preserving and protecting the sperm and the godly seed, seeing it as an living embryo that can be passed away or something like that, even though they go further  into sin. . . but it has the power within that sperm once it’s linked with the egg of the woman, it has the power to create the image of God and bring it forth into this world. I think, may God help us. Thinking about this, just as we repent of abortion, I think we should also repent of the way we have treated the sperm that God has given to man. It’s to be treated honorably, because it bears within it the potential for the bringing forth of the image of God in the world.

Doesn’t this world need that image? Oh, yes, it does. Why is there not the army of Christians resisting evil today? Because we have refused to have them. Because we’ve had a mindset that really comes straight from the enemy himself. Deceived us with the media, even from the church platform very often. In many, many ways we have been deceived in this manner. We need to come back to it.

Nancy: Oh, I believe this. Oh, I think we need such a revival in this area. I’m thinking of a few years ago, Serene was talking with me on the podcast. I always remember she had her youngest, little Solly, sitting with her. Solly, I think she was about one year old then. She’s now five years old. My, how the time goes!

We were talking about life together, and I remember Serene saying, “Oh, my goodness! Little Solly is here beside me. Imagine if I didn’t have her! It’s just too incredible! And look at her personality. God had a vision for her. Imagine if I had said to God, ‘No, God. I don’t want her. I don’t care for Your desire to have her in eternity with You.’”

And, wow, that’s another powerful thought. When we stop having children, we don’t only just stop one child. We stop a dynasty, a whole dynasty!

Colin: That’s true, yes.

Nancy: Because our children grow up to marry and have children, and their children to marry and have children. We now have many, many great-grandchildren coming on. They are dynasties. But also, the most powerful, powerful thing of allis that when we say no to life, we actually deny a person who God intended to come forth into the world, and not just to this world, but to eternity. We deny them eternity.

You think, “Oh, well, what does that matter? They will never know that they ever were denied it. They never know!” But how can we think like that? Eternity! It is just so glorious. The glories of the eternal world, the glories that are beyond the scope of our human minds to comprehend, why would we want to deprive a child that God would give us of these glories to come? Oh, my!

We have deprived, the Christian church has deprived millions of glory, who could have been in the glorious eternity. Right now, we can never understand how glorious it will be. It will be beyond what our minds can ever, ever imagine. And who would want to stop a child from having the privilege of having eternity with God?

Colin: I notice you have written here, “The devil hates life, and his kingdom is a kingdom of death.” John 10:10 says: “He comes to steal, kill, and destroy.” The anti-life trio. He does this through contraception, sterilization, and abortion.

The devil wants to eliminate life before it’s even conceived. That’s an interesting statement. The devil wants to eliminate life before it’s even conceived through contraception and sterilization. Abortion, then, is just the back-up plan. That’s tragic. It’s the same spirit that tries to stop the seed from being fertilized. It’s the same spirit that wants the baby when it is fertilized, when it’s in the womb, to be destroyed.

Nancy: Yes. It’s time to pray.

Colin: “Lord, Lord, we thank You, that, Lord, You have given to mankind, procreativity, so that, Lord, Your glorious image, in all its fullness, shall be manifested across this world, to push back, to push back all evil and darkness. And Lord, it’s true that the righteous examples of life, as people go forward, Lord, and babies are born and are raised up in a godly home, when they come out of those homes to bring forth Your light and Your glory and to increase the knowledge of the Lord in their generation.

“Here we are, standing in a very, very difficult time, when the world is trying to destroy mankind, to bring down the population of the earth to 500 million from seven billion people, to bring it down. Lord, we see how wicked and how far away man has become. Forgive us, oh Lord, in Jesus’ Name.”

Nancy: Amen.

Blessings from Nancy Campbell

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Transcribed by Darlene Norris * This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.