PODCAST TRANSCRIPT | EPISODE 264: It’s Time to Elevate the Role of Husband and Wife, Continued - Part 6
LIFE TO THE FULL w/ Nancy Campbell
EPISODE 264: It’s Time to Elevate the Role of Husband and Wife, Continued - Part 6
Colin and I share more about marriage—how to guard against a hard heart, how to guard against treachery, and how to guard against dismembering.
Announcer: Welcome to the podcast, Life to The Full, with Nancy Campbell, founder and publisher of Above Rubies.
Nancy Campbell: Hello! Great to be with you once again! Today is podcast 264. We are returning to our series of ELEVATING MARRIAGE. It is time to elevate the home, the family, and marriage. Once again, my husband is with me. He will be with me as we continue this series.
I was going to start today about elevating a specific piece of furniture in our homes. But before we get onto that, I think we need to speak a little bit more about marriage. There’s so much more to say. A few Scriptures that we’d like to bring to you, and, of course, it’s only the Scriptures that are worth talking about. If we were to come here with our own ideas, we wouldn’t be much help to you, would we? Here are just one or two Scriptures and a few thoughts about them.
Matthew 19:8 talks about how hardness of heart is what leads to divorce. And therefore, this is something that we have to watch in our marriage. We can easily get a hard heart. We’ve got to guard that with all our might. It is so important to keep a soft heart to the Lord, a soft heart to God’s Word, a soft heart to people who speak against us, and, of course, most of all, a soft heart to our husbands.
Life’s not perfect and we’re not perfect. I’m not perfect. Our husbands aren’t perfect, so there will be times when they do things or say things that hurt you, that, wow, you’re not happy about. In fact, you can get offended. You may even, if you let your heart get hard, you’ll get bitter and twisted.
But we mustn’t allow that, because if you get offended and you don’t deal with it, offense leads to bitterness, and bitterness leads to hardness, and hardness leads to divorce. That’s the thing that God says is the root cause of divorce. It’s a hard heart. That’s something we have to watch. What do you think about that, Darling?
Colin Campbell: Yes. Hardness of heart, it comes through very deeply. It comes through very defiantly. It can be . . . hardness of heart is like getting across your opinion so strongly but not with a meek spirit. When you have hardness of heart, when you’re retaliating, or coming back, it shows a realm of toughness, perhaps defiance. It’s something that your mind is made up and this is the way you feel about it.
You may even stomp your feet while you’re speaking. You may not, but nevertheless, it’s unfortunate that that should take place. Because it cannot be anything worked out when your heart becomes hardened, or your speech becomes hardened. If your heart is hardened, your face will look hardened, your eyes will look hardened. I think it’s almost like a demonic realm can come right into there and bring about like a wrecking ball.
Nancy: Yes, when you said that, I think of that Scripture in Isaiah 3:9, where it says: “The show of their countenance doth witness against them.” It is true. The heart gets hard. Our face will begin to look hard. Isn’t it sad when you see a woman with a hard face? Oh, it doesn’t even look nice, does it?
Colin: It’s not endearing to anybody when your face gets like an adamant stone. That must be a very, very . . . it’s a stone. It’s an adamant stone. It must be a very hard stone. I think it’s a King James version of that particular mention of stones. It’s hard. It’s like flinty rock, or something. You can’t answer to that. You can’t respond to it, because if you do, you’re going to almost fall into the same trap.
Nancy: Let’s see what Jesus said about it all. I mentioned Matthew chapter 19, but it’s all repeated again in Mark 10:2: “And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?” That means to divorce his wife. Tempting Jesus. “And He answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.” To divorce her.
“And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.” For the hardness of your heart! “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
So, there it is, from the mouth of Jesus. The warning from the Word of God is that we keep soft hearts. If you have been offended, oh, you are hurt by your husband, your heart is tending to get bitter . . . get down on your knees. Let the Holy Spirit work in your heart. It’s only the Holy Spirit who can change our hearts and turn our hearts around. He can make our hard hearts into soft hearts. Seek with all your heart to keep a soft heart.
That’s something that, even as we’re mothering, we need to teach our children how to keep a soft heart. How to respond, even to correction and to instruction with a soft heart. It’s a habit that we need to get into all our lives.
Of course, as I said before, there will be times when it can happen in your marriage, even when your husband says something that cuts across your spirit. It’s like an arrow that goes deep into your heart. Well, once again, get before the Lord, and do what the Bible tells you to do. And that is, instead of reacting with getting bitter and a hard heart, to react with blessing.
PAY BACK WITH A BLESSING
That’s an amazing thing in the Bible. There are many, many principles, kingdom principles which are so opposite to us. They’re the opposite to the way we feel. They’re opposite to the way we work.
One of these principles is blessing when people curse you and say evil things about you. We read that in Matthew chapter five and also in 1 Peter 3:8. The New Living Translation says: “Don’t repay evil for evil. Don’t retaliate with insults when people insult you. Instead, this is what God has called you to do, and He will grant you His blessing.”
When someone has hurt you, or when even your husband has said hurtful words, you don’t feel like blessing him, do you? No, you feel mad. You feel hurt. You feel, oh, just cut up. But the Bible tells us to pay them back. Well, that’s what we really feel like! “I’m going to pay them back!” No, we pay them back with a blessing.
Another translation says: “Retaliate.” How? “Retaliate with a blessing.”
The Knox Translation says: “Not repaying hard words with hard words, but blessing those who curse you.” I know that is the opposite to how you feel, but it’s a Kingdom principle, and it works. God’s Kingdom principles work.
When you begin to bless, to pay back with a blessing, to instead of retaliating with hard words, you retaliate with soft words. Or maybe no words at all if you can’t say soft words. You will find that God will begin to work. God works when we obey His principles.
Colin: Yes. If you’re really wanting the debate or the discussion to turn around, to be a blessing to you, we have to be very careful about keeping a meek spirit, a soft spirit. Because your hardness of mouth or conversation is indicative of what is going on in your spirit. You have to be quiet in your spirit.
You have to purposely take out resistance in your spirit or come against it. You can then begin to speak. Because once you make strong statements, it’s very hard for the other person not to react with strong statements. You’re never going to get anywhere. Somebody said, “You will never win an argument.” That is the truth. You never do.
But if you speak kind words, entreating words, and soft words, they will come back to you. The person that you’re speaking to may be your husband or maybe your wife. Also, you will have this opportunity to feel that it’s worth speaking back in that soft spirit, that meek spirit. It’s so important, it’s so very important. We really do need to realize this is the new nature. This is the Christ nature inside of us.
They wondered, as Scripture says, the people who heard Jesus speak, “wondered at the gracious words that proceeded from His mouth.” They were amazed at those gracious words. Even though He was often in a hostile environment and perhaps the scribes and the Pharisees were really denouncing the people, making them feel guilty, and heavy and hard words they were receiving from them. Perhaps dominating words from the scribes and the Pharisees, but Jesus was totally different.
Nancy: Amen! And now, there’s another Scripture I want to give you. When we were last speaking about marriage, I gave you some Scriptures about the exclusivity of marriage. I forgot this one. I want to give it to you. It’s found in Proverbs 5 in the context of talking about marriage, specifically about the husband.
YOUR VERY OWN
It says in Proverbs 5:15: “Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well . . . Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee. Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.”
Do you notice there the word “own”? It’s very exclusive. “Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let them be only thy own.” Once again, we see the exclusivity of marriage.
We read in 1 Corinthians 7:2: “Let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” But I did talk about that last time, so I just wanted to give you those Scriptures.
Now we’re going to go on to another Scripture, a very powerful Scripture about marriage, in Malachi 2. And we will have a few thoughts to share with you on these Scriptures. Let me read them first.
Malachi 2:14: “The Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously. Yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away.” He hates divorce! “For one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore, take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.” Did you notice that in those few verses, the word “treacherously” is mentioned three times?
Colin: It’s amazing.
Nancy: That is pretty serious, isn’t it? Three times the word “treacherously” is mentioned in the context of a marriage splitting up.
Colin: Do you want me to say something here?
Nancy: I thought you were going to say something.
Colin: Well, I notice that “Beware of your spirit.” How is your spirit reacting? I noticed when you were saying that, how important it is to keep your spirit right, so that you will treat your wife as your companion. If she’s your companion . . . before you got married, she certainly was your companion. The marriage wouldn’t have happened, I’m sure, if she was not your companion.
But when you have a companion, even outside of marriage, if you have a companion with friends, or lady friends if you’re speaking of women, or to men. You treat them respectfully and you talk encouragingly to your companion. You want to talk regularly to your companion. You can’t wait to talk again to your companion. This is the way we are to view our spouse, whether it’s a husband or a wife. We’re to view them as our number one companion.
Nancy: Yes. This word “treacherously,” in the Hebrew it’s the word bagad. It means “pillage, to deal deceitfully, treacherously, unfaithfully, to offend, to transgress.” Here it’s talking about the husband treacherously dealing with his wife.
Then we go over to Jeremiah 3:20. Here it’s talking about the wife. It says: “Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.” God and Israel were a type of marriage. When Israel departed from the Lord and served other gods, He said, “You are just like a treacherous wife.” It is used for both the husband and the wife.
So, once again, we have to look upon marriage as God sees it. When He put Adam and Eve together, He said He made them one flesh. When He puts every married couple together, they become one. When they are separated, it’s a treacherous thing in God’s eyes.
I think, though, it comes back, not to great big things, but very little things. I think everything in marriage starts with little things. In fact, The Message paraphrase of this Scripture says: “His Spirit inhabits even the smallest details of marriage.” I think that is very powerful.
God is watching over the smallest details and it’s even the little things in our marriage that can gradually lead to hardness of heart and even to the treacherousness of a oneness that is pulled apart. Often, we don’t realize the impact of that. I think if only we could be aware that God is watching every little detail, in every area, in our sexual union, our daily living, our attitudes, every interaction with one another. It’s all adding up to a beautiful marriage, or to one that is crumbling. What would you have to say, Darling?
Colin: To bring about a treacherous word or acting treacherously, obviously with treacherousness, being treacherous, is, you’re cutting off. You’re actually acting very severely and it’s destroying. What is treachery? It’s a very strong, strong word. I think this can happen.
We are to speak in a way that will not be accusatory. I think this is one thing that really causes a lot of problems in marriage. I think we’ve even been challenged by it ourselves. When my wife says, “You’re accusing me.” I might say, “No, you are accusing me!” So, we have to be very, very careful as we say our words and speak towards one another that this doesn’t come across as accusing. He is the accuser of the brethren. The devil is the accuser of the brethren. We don’t need to be joining his camp in accusing one another also.
Rather, if we have a question relating to something that’s gone missing, that’s usually where we can get ourselves into a little bit of a tight spot. If something goes missing, and then I can think, “Well, I’m being accused,” and my wife will think, well, she’s being accused about it. We don’t really let it get to us in any big heavy way, but we have to watch what we say.
It’s the way we say it, I think, that can be interpreted as being accusative which leads to a treacherous response. We have to be so wise about these little things. I think what I’m talking about can be happening daily with people just accusing one another and then finally it leads to harsher actions because people can’t tolerate it. They can’t stand it, they get tired of it, they get worn out with it. Then they’re done with it. That’s a treacherous act.
Nancy: Yes. Another thought from this passage, which actually comes from The Message, which is a paraphrase really. But often it has some beautiful thoughts. It says here: “I hate divorce, says the God of Israel. I hate the violent dismembering of the one-flesh marriage. So, watch yourselves. Don’t let your guard down. Don’t cheat.”
I began to think of this word “dismembering.” Wow! That’s a very powerful word. It’s not something that happens all at once. Usually, it’s little by little. It’s dismembering from being something that is whole and one. Marriage is meant to be whole.
I think of the illustration of a baby in the womb. A baby begins with two. It begins with sperm, and it begins with the egg. The sperm is fused together with the egg. Therefore, it becomes one and conception happens. A new baby is growing because life begins at conception. There were two, the sperm and the egg, but then, when they are made one together, they are one. They are one new life. When a couple are put together in marriage, they become a new oneness.
But what happens with abortion? The devil hates new life. He hates life. He is the destroyer. He comes to rob, kill, and destroy. Sadly, so many precious babies in the womb, through abortion, are dismembered, limb by limb, in the womb. That is really the bottom line. It’s the work of Satan. He is in the business of dismembering that which was one, that which was whole. He wants to dismember it, like he has done to so many precious, precious babies in the womb.
But then, it happens in marriage.
Colin: Yes, it happens in marriage. This is quite an interesting point that you’re bringing out here, because we can say, “Well, it’s divorce,” but do we realize that it’s actually dismembering the one-flesh that God has brought us to in a marriage? When we make that covenant, and to take that on further, and we become one flesh, that’s what happens. We become one flesh through the intimacy. God doesn’t want that to become dismembered, be cut away.
Here it says: “dismembering of the one flesh of marriage” that particular translation says. I think we have to see it that God hates it. That’s why He hates it. There’s got to be something pretty. pretty bad about that that would cause God to say, “I hate divorce.”
He hates it because He’s joined us together. He's created that situation whereby we are linked together, and we are joined together. Then we go about dismembering it. It’s like what happens to the babies in the womb. In abortion they literally dismember the baby. Well, we’re doing this with marriage as well.
Nancy: Yes, and it starts in little ways. Every negative word, and every negative action, is a little “dismembering.” Instead of allowing that to happen, we’ve got to remember, we are always to be building. We’re continuing to enhance our oneness, rather than dismembering.
Colin: I think, too, that we need to realize how God really sees marriage, so that we will not, like they’re having in many courts today, have what they call “quick divorce.” That’s disgusting to think like that when God hates that. We need to ask the Lord to give us the same hatred that He has towards it so that we’ll be much more careful how we act in our marriage, so that we’re not doing that. How we speak in our marriage, and the attitudes we have.
Nancy: Yes! Oh, I can’t even believe how time has gone! There are lots more thoughts on this Scripture, so I think we will do another podcast continuing a few thoughts about this Scripture because it is so powerful.
But we do pray that the Lord will pour out His blessings upon you today, and upon your marriage. That if there is any little dismembering going on, even in a little way, and you’re not feeling that oneness together, don’t let it carry on. Do something about it. Take a positive action, and ask the Holy Spirit to come and flood your heart so you can forgive, and you can bless, and you can begin to speak a positive word of blessing even when you’ve been accused and hurt.
Colin: Because Jesus was accused, over and over and over, in the most violent times. But He didn’t allow it to get to His heart and change His salvation, and change His grace towards the people who were accusing Him. We need to keep that.
I think it’s so very, very important, especially for women, and especially for the husband speaking to them and she becomes very hurt. They really get extremely hurt. Constantly that way, a man’s got to be so, so careful that he’s walking on eggshells around her. That’s not the way God wants it to be.
Nancy: You pray. We’ve got to end.
Colin: “Lord, we thank You for this wonderful time together. It’s a very, very important subject. We pray that, Lord, there will be no dismembering. There will be no more, Lord. You will help us to fight for our marriages, to resist the temptations of the enemy to destroy them, to dismember them. In the Name of Jesus, Amen.”
Nancy: Amen.
Ezekiel 36:26: “A new heart also will I give you, and new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh, and will give you an heart of flesh.”
Blessings from Nancy Campbell
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